Picking the Ideal Permanent Retreat Location

This week’s newsletter is going to be quite a bit different than normal…it’s going to primarily be a conversation among readers (and myself) and it’s an article that you’re going to want to come back to throughout the coming days to read and reply to the comments and responses.

One of the most common lines of questioning that I get from people is about the “best” place to move to. The intensity of this question has been increasing as of late, with friends calling me up, telling me that they’re ready to make big changes in their lives, and asking me where in the heck they should move to.

I’ve read every book that I know of on the topic, as well as countless forum postings, and the only constant answer to the question of where to live is, “It depends.” This question has as many answers as it has people asking the question, simply because of how different people’s lives are. You may need to be close to a major airport for business or to be able to get to ailing parents quickly. You may have medical concerns that mean you need to stay near a military hospital or another specific type of medical facility. You may have allergies or arthritis, lung issues, or other conditions that dictate where you live. If your profession is geographically specific, you’re going to be limited somewhat.

Wheat farmers and deep sea fishermen are examples of this. Wheat farmers won’t find many wheat farms in New England and deep sea fishermen won’t find too many boats in Kansas.

Regardless of what your criteria is, the National Association of Realtors says that 1 in 7 households move every year. The US Census Bureau says it’s as high as 1 in 5 households. Either way, it happens a lot. One of the ramifications of that statistic is that thousands of people reading this article will be moving in the next 12 months. Thousands more will move in the following 12 months. In other words, this is an important topic and your educated input could literally help thousands of people.

In addition to “normal” factors, like jobs and family, many of those thousands of people will be choosing their new state, city, neighborhood, and house based in part on how survivable it would be in the event of an EMP, currency collapse, infrastructure breakdown, terrorist attack like a suitcase nuke, hacking, or bio weapon attack. These events, and dozens more could all easily lead to a breakdown in supply chains and civil order.

The fact is, where you spend the majority of your time is going to be one of the biggest factors in creating a survival and preparedness plan. That’s the exact reason why I created the SurviveInPlace.com Survival and Preparedness Course…because most people spend the majority of their time in houses and cities that are a far stretch from being “perfect” and they need to have a practical plan in place when disaster strikes.

But what if something in your life changed today that made it possible to relocate to your ideal location—one where you’d be equally happy spending the rest of your life if no disaster ever struck or if civilization imploded in on itself tomorrow.

This week, I want to get a lot of input from you—particularly from those of you who have recently moved and from those of you who are in the process of picking a new place to call home.

If you are looking to relocate, what features are you looking for? If you have relocated, what features DID you look for? Regardless, if you could tap your toes and live anywhere you wanted to live, where would it be?

Would you want to follow the Mel Tappin model and look for a town of 10,000, hoping that it’s big enough to provide mutual aid and a wide range of skills but too small to support a large entitlement population?

Would you want to live in the middle of nowhere, cut off from society, hoping to be insulated from people?

Would you want to live in a tiny town, hoping to be accepted as a local?

Would you want to live in a city of a million or more, to take advantage of the increased earning potential, shopping choices, medical care, technology, and food choices for as long as possible?

Would you look for a city in the 100,000 range, so that you could have a taste of both big and small?

Do you want to live outside of one of these towns in an attempt to mix the benefits of rural living with the conveniences of urban shopping and job opportunities?

Do you think that the popularity of the Pacific Northwest “Redoubt” area among preppers makes it more desirable or simply makes it a concentrated target?

How about specific states and towns? Any “honey holes” where you love living now as a prepper or would love to move to? (Only if it makes sense to share them)

Kerrville TX? Mena AR, Angelfire NM? Montrose CO? Ft. Collins CO? Colorado Springs CO? Basalt CO? Prescot AZ? Carson City NV? Salt Lake City UT? Ogden UT? Sun Valley ID? Coeur d’Alene ID? Sandpoint ID? Spokane WA? Bend OR? Fairbanks AK? How about East of the Mississippi in the Appalachians? Or even other countries like Chile, Panama, or the Philippines?

In short, if you could pick your ideal place to live, where would it be and why do you want to go there?

Is there an established prepper network to plug in to? Is that where your family and friends are? Is it purely a SHTF tactical decision?

Do you want to move somewhere and drop out of society, or move somewhere where in the hopes of having your cake and eat it too…enjoying the benefits of both increased self-reliance and a developed infrastructure and a wide variety of foods, products, and services during good times.

Do you want to live in a “prepper” community?

What about factors like politics, gun laws, homeschooling laws, taxes, local views on alternative medicines, predominance of a “buy local” mentality, crime rates, great churches, etc.?

Share your experiences, questions, and thoughts by commenting below…this promises to be a fun and informative discussion.

God Bless & Stay Safe,
David Morris

SurviveInPlace.com

 

About David Morris

David Morris is the creator of the Survive In Place Urban Survival Course, the Fastest Way To Prepare Course, Urban Survival Playing Cards, Tactical Firearms Training Secrets, and other books, courses, and articles on preparedness, survival, firearms, and other tactical topics. He lives with his wife, 2 boys, and 2 dogs.

Comments

  1. I am near Council Bluffs, Iowa (also Omaha Nebraska.) The western half of Iowa is
    staunchly Republican, and as I talk to people, strongly patriotic. Great farm country.
    I need to move further into the country, away from Omaha.
    Re communication, I am looking into buying a ham radio system (or two; one for storage in
    a Faraday cage) and last week I meet a guy who is talking about setting up a class if how to run the ham radio system and get licensed. Such classes might be a great place to meet like-minded people; ditto for the 912 groups/ tea party groups.

  2. PS: After posting and then reading many of the others comments it strikes me that it would be good to have a place in mind to head to for many of like minded people who could pool resources and work together to make a strong hold of sorts…maybe too much tv and movies but too many people floundering around each alone or in cities is not a safe place to be……also it is a must to be able to communicate with other folks of like mind and plan so as to have options as to where and what to do…..to me knowing there are others and to be able to get in touch and stay in touch would be of so much help….communication and whom to trust would be major at such a time! No matter how prepared of not we are, it is only the sum total of who we are that will make the difference. We don’t know how things would play out, who will do what to whom and how or when it all would come about- so we have to have an action plan or call chain to warn, inform or get in touch with other preppers, patriots, real down to earth American people in a safe way!!! Trust, security, safety and true plans are issues we would all be wondering about in such a situation or emergency!!

  3. I moved all my life until I moved here and that was 37 years ago….time has passed really fast too. I grew up an Air Force ‘brat’ so have patriotism in my blood. It made for a life growing up that gave me strength, honor, backbone, and got to see lots of country. I would prefer to get out of this large city I live in, as we have the largest nuke plant in the US right here in our city proper and I would be within the hundred mile circle if it were to blow! In smaller towns people care about each other more and I would like if I could to be in an area that there were others who are patriots, have good sense about things and people of faith! That when push came to shove we would know what to do, stick together and stand for our nation and what we believe in. Maybe I am a dreamer to hope for such a place, but if all things were right that is what I would want. Coming together to help one another gives a sense of accomplishing even if it is only raising food and working to keep everyone going while waiting or planning what to do next. Safety and power in numbers, as long as there are people who agree to things the same way. It has all gotten to a point where it is going to come to a head one of these days and if we are not ready collectivly we are going to be either scattered or killed without a chance to prepare a place! It is one thing to have things to help in case of emergency, but it is a horse of another color to have to hold up for months or whatever alone without help and no where else to go but stay in place! While I am not afraid of guns or being strong and have the military spirit; I do not have some strong man around to help do the harder things or help…many of us gals are in that boat and some have children to care for or live with us!!

  4. My husband is a Realtor in the mountains west of Denver. As some have previously mentioned, Park County is a great spot to relocate or bug out to as it is large and sparsely populated (South Park is here, lol). Also, as mentioned, water is a concern, so my suggestion is to ensure there is a well on the property and then have a backup (solar, generator, etc) system for the pump to run off in case there is no electricity. Rivers, creeks and lakes are relatively scarce so a backup to power the pump is essential, a spare pump would be helpful too and the expertise to install it ;). We have a few options of bug out locations, each further and further into the mountains to friends’ homes and lastly wilderness areas. I’m not sure what exactly would drive me into the wilderness, but it is an option! Our main plan is to stay in place though, God willing, but slowly we are piecing together a bug OUT plan if necessary. My daughter is giving us our first grand baby very soon. We will likely firm up plans to gather together at a defined location better suited for several families to hunker down than in our small place. May God truly bless you all in your preparations…

  5. Eric Jones says:

    I’m in Utah along the Wasatch Front and I enjoy it here. As far as selecting the perfect place, I don’t think there is one. As my Geography teacher would say, ‘You can die in a hurricane in Florida, in California you’ll die of an Earthquake, or in Kansas you’ll die of boredom!’ Just kidding to the Kansas people– you do have Tornados. Anyways, there are so many different disasters that that we are facing that at least one will touch wherever you live. That being said, I believe that you would need to leave any large city and surrounding areas within 72 hours of any regional disaster or collapse. I like Utah’s gun laws and gun culture, much of it is rural, many people are prepared and preparing (still wish it were more, of course), we have states to each side to provide a buffer from invasion, the rocky mountains to retreat into if needed, and I like the people as well. Not perfect (water being a problem in many areas), but I like it.

  6. J W Mason says:

    Interested in meeting other preppers in the North Texas or Southern Oklahoma area–Denison/Sherman esp. Good mechanically and with guns.

  7. Live in the Ft. Hood area with the understanding that travel will probably NOT be much of an option unless it’s on foot, so little by little stocking my home. Have a few neighbors who plan, but still think they’ll be able to get to a different location, which will leave me alone with my teen age son. Would like to find folks REALLY close to work with.

  8. Moved from WA State to Uruguay. Am putting up a website about establishing residency, esp. in Uruguay.

  9. Barbara D'harlingue says:

    I live in Phoenix…have level one prepared but not much else…I will be moving to the Prescott Az area as it is the place that seems the best…..are there any others there I can contact.?
    Barbara

    • Barbara, you are smart to get out of here…we have the largest nuke plant in the nation right here!! Prescott is nice and more rural…anywhere North is AZ seems good. I am in Mesa. Good luck, Ruth

  10. Fay Uyechi says:

    Any preppers in the Orlando area?? I’m about 20miles away…and while cars are still running, could get just about anywhere within reason! I’m the 75 year old Grandma that posted previously, but am serious about these endeavors.

  11. Greg Thompson says:

    How can you find prepper networks either where you currently live or in areas where you are considering moving to?

    Thanks
    Greg

    • Nancy Fritch says:

      Yes, Greg, I too would like to know how to find like-minded preppers. When I ask questions here in my area, the people believe these things will never happen. Very frustrating. Nancy

  12. We live in a relatively small community in SouthWest Florida, but if shtf I do not think our area is defensible.Used to live in Northern Maine. 120 Miles North of Bangor. Except for the long long cold winters, this may be a good area. Potato farms are relatively cheap to buy, lots of wood, game, fish, and everyone is armed. Another area might be Wyoming, but I know the backroads of Maine, and have no experience with Wyoming.

    Eastern Oregon may also be an option, but when I was there, it seemed that too many liberals were running that state.

    In any case, now is the time to stock up on weapons and ammo. If Obama gets re-elected, you can kiss this Republic and our second amendment goodbye! We need to use the electoral process to keep America free. Violence is not a viable answer.

    As a freedom loving Vietnam Vet. I will work my butt off to keep America FREE!!

  13. Looking for preppers in the Belleville Il area to compare ideas with. Thank you, Kat.

  14. I live in Houston. My 88 year old father in law and our 5 dogs have made it necessary to prep to hunker down.
    We have several very good tactical defense schools in our area. I suggest to anyone, buy guns (multiple), get trained and stock up on ammunition.
    I too would like to meet Houston preppers, but I’m not sure I know how to go about doing it.

  15. Sounds like you are acting wisely. I would be surprised if Jacksonville, FL or where I live would be a major target for a surprise attack.

    With my brother and sister’s families, I am a part owner of a small rural farmhouse. I live on an hour outside of a large metropolitan area. I’m far from what I would expect to be potential targets, and in less than a day (without going near potential attack sites) I could drive to our rural farmhouse, which is even more remote. I’m not making major preparations or stockpiling large amounts of food as I don’t see signs of an imminent emergency. (I do have a small stock of dry beans and spaghetti. Things like dry beans and spaghetti can be stored indefinitely and cooked anywhere there is water and heat to cook them.) Should the situation become dangerous, I would want more dry beans, spaghetti, canned goods and other food that can be stored indefinitely. These things would disappear quickly from stores in an emergency, so it might be a good idea for me to consider storing a supply that would last at least through a winter.

    • Just remember, canned goods don’t last long, especially acidic foods (anything with tomato, eats right thru the can). And most canned foods cans are lined with BPA, a cancer causing plastic. Some of the newer can products (like Eden Organic) are BPA free. Plan on BPA free for a healthier life. In survival situations, health is so important.

  16. Central Idaho along the Salmon river is attracting a lot of people. It is one of the places on the part of the map that remains in The Big Flood maps. Property prices are low, people have and use firearms, there are remote properties in the mountains. Growing season is okay. Part of it is high desert. Don’t expect any work ethic or education from the natives: they are entitled – high percentage of disability and welfare check folks … all white. They have a ‘live off the land’ thing and you, the newbie, are ‘the land.’ It appeals to men: Women hate it as a rule. Education is beyond pitiful. You can live private and mind your own business in most of rural Idaho. The land is gorgeous, and spring and summer are the best places in the world to be. Water rights are vital. You WILL be ‘home-towned by the inbreds in rural areas, this one included.

    • We have property in Western/Central Idaho. The people are wonderful, and water rights are a given. If you want to drill a well and have plan on 1/2 acre garden, no water rights necessary. We have a year round spring on our property, and if we want to use it, we do need to get a water share. We are about 2 miles from a small town, but everybody we have met are anything but clanish. We are heading up there as soon as we can sell our current home in Central Utah.

  17. John Panagos says:

    Just gettig caught up on my emails, I live just outside of Jacksonville, FL.and due to a son who has parkinsons disease I have to plan on staying where I am. Most if not all my neighbors and familt think I’m paranoid and are not doing anything to prepare for any kind of problem, the only answere I get is there going to come to my house for what they need if trouble arises. I can help alittle but not for a long period of time and forget about the ones who think they will take what they want, 9 not going to happen), so I am having to go it alone with my wife and son so far and can only hope those wgo are not prepared so far do so soon while they stiil can.

    • John,
      So these people live in Florida but don’t see the need to be prepared for disasters? They’ve never seen a hurricane?
      If I were you I would do some VERY serious damage control here…i.e. tell those those moochers that they have convinced you that you are just being paranoid, you have other things to do with your money, are tired of storing the stuff, etc, etc. Whatever works!
      Set up some very secure & hidden storage. Offsite caches or burying things would be a good idea. You can be sure that these idiots will do exactly what they say – or worse – if SHTF. Are you prepared to then defend the supplies that may mean life or death for your loved ones? Think about it.
      And for heavens’ sake, STOP letting people know what you are doing!!

  18. I think the first thing you need to decide before looking at “where” is how bad you believe things could get (and for how long), and/or what level of preparedness you’re willing and able to undertake. I define three general levels of preparedness. Level one is basic, which involves enough means to survive for a few days to a few months (e.g. BOBs, food/water storage at home). Level two is having the means to survive for several months to a few years (e.g. able to grow/get food, water, shelter). Level three is the ability to survive indefinitely (e.g. farm in a prepper community) due to a TEOTWAWKI type event. Needing the first level of preparedness is the most likely, and the easiest to do. It is affordable for almost everyone, and usually doesn’t require one to relocate. Level two events are less likely than level one events and more likely than level three much more difficult to prepare for. It requires either living on or having ready access to some sort of farm like property. Level three preparedness is the least likely and the most involved. To do it right means having an extended prepper community/network as the assumption is there won’t be a government of any sort for some time to come, and/or your group would essentially need to start one like the puritans did. One needs to think of defense for all three levels, and it gets harder with each level as the number and/or desperation of raiders will increase. A big question for level two especially, and possibly three is – can you trust ‘the government’? This is problematic everywhere unless you plan to get a group and buy an unoccupied tropical island somewhere (not a bad idea). The idea here is that the better prepared you are, the more likely ‘the state’ will want to take what you have to ensure ‘fair distribution’. I live in Canada and right now I’m level one prepared. I have only a rudimentary level two plan involving some seed banking/farming training but would have to relocate with some friends to empty but fertile property. Winter would probably kill us, though. For level three I’m convinced I’d have to leave Canada. That would mean southern USA or more likely South America. Frankly, I don’t trust the US Gov’t any more than my own. Hopefully a country that was better off in general (e.g. Chile with its primary focus on agriculture and a net exporter). That will take much more planning and money which I don’t have at present, nor am I yet willing to make that radical a change in lifestyle (yet).

  19. FYI, I heard Ron Paul on the radio say, on $2.50 gas as Ginrch says he can do if hes presadend, Said I can make gas cost 10 cents a gal., If we use the silver dime that we had before the govnerment, took aqll the silver out of our hands, Becaust that silver dime is worth $3.and change, It made me think, Wow I rember pumping gas when i was 16, for 23 cents a gal. And he is right we been getting screwd fo the last 50 years!

  20. My choice if I had the money to move, I would move to Ecuador or Texas. I live in California in the L.A. County.

    • Mariowen says:

      Move to Texas. We would love to have you!

      • I am in Texas, but eventually La Reconquista will overtake us gringos here, especially in the south and major cities. Immigrants will loot at the drop of a hat and take what you have to feed their broods without a second thought. They already do and our jails are bursting at the seams here. This is no place to settle for the long term.

      • Just move north, I live in Butte County and we have some rustic areas around here…

      • kevin moriarty says:

        I personally believe that texas is a great place why? because these people truly believe in their independence,liberty&true freedom.afterall they were a republic,if only for 9 years&they did not like the annexation to the united states.I believe they are the only state that is able to cede from the Us Govt.Also texas has the strongest economy in the USA 1.25 trillion dollars,texas did not follow the rest of the country in the financial debacle.As a native New Yorker i can tell you that NY is almost a POLICE STATE!

  21. Can I hear from british preppers , specifically Southern English preppers as we can’t all relocate to the Highlands of Scotland or the Welsh hills and valleys.Come up Brits , share your ideas

  22. StuckOnaRock says:

    I live in Hawaii….a rock….in the middle of the big blue pacific ocean….super. I was born and raised here. There is no ‘getting out of dodge’ when theres nowhere to go….quite literally. you need a plane or a ship and good luck getting one if the SHTF. so i plan to stay put and do what i can to ensure the survival of my family(me, husband and 3 little ones) and any other relatives i can help. my family has a small one acre parcel in a rural(as rural as your gonna get here) part of the island. its measly but you have to start somewhere and something is better than nothing. luckily our town is small enough that everyone knows someone who knows your mama, but big enough that walmart is completely emptied of its stock when ever a ‘disaster’ (hurricane, tsunami, etc.) is impending. we’ll be building a cabin on it soon. nothing fancy or big but completely off grid and im itching to start my garden and get our animals going. we plan to have chickens, pigs, goats…if im lucky a cow or 2. wish there were space for horses. between my husband and i we have quite a bit of handy skills. he does masonry for a living and we both grew up in carpentry families…we’ll be building our home entirely on our own. i grew up around ranching also so i’m familiar with animals….and i’m no stranger to hard work. i sew, i’m a cna, i can shoot a gun and a bow and i’m good with a knife. hubby’s brainy and crafty we both have many skills and we work well together. I say i was born in the wrong era because i would much rather live the way pioneers did. We’re gonna make what we got work because there is no other choice….if you think its hard or expensive to move around the continental U.S. try putting an ocean between you and your destination. I’d rather be in Alaska. So i say, life isnt ideal, you have to make it that way. Knowledge truly is power, if you werent brought up with many skills, LEARN. and learn NOW. theres always something to learn, I’m only 25, I know alot but I dont know everything so I keep learning, keep adapting, keep working to make my life as ideal as possible. I’ve always been preparedness minded and have never had to run to walmart or the grocery store to get my supplies when the news announces its time to do so….i’ve already got it.

  23. I live in the Houston area but found a place while visiting my dad in West Texas. It is 421 miles from here. Perfect place with city water/sewer but also has a water well and a storm cellar that was retrofitted as a bomb shelter in the 60’s–with a toilet!! Very cheap, too. It would be my disaster plan however in the event of an EMP/nuclear blast (remember we have the refineries)–how would I get there? The cars would not run. The gas stations would not pump. Any suggestions?

    • Evelyn,
      Get an old vehicle that does not run on “computer” system like our new ones. The EMP shouldn’t shut those down.
      Good luck!

  24. Great topic. My wife & I live in The Democratic People’s Republic of Brooklyn, so we’re mostly looking at survive in place-type preparations. Trying to get out of here would be impossible in almost any scenario where systems have failed. Too many unprepared people. Too many bottlenecks getting in & out. I would have 2 hops through bridge/tunnels just to get to the mainland. We would like to have a place to get to if we knew far enough ahead to split, or after waiting a couple weeks if/when travel would be less dangerous. (When enough people have left, grid-lock gone, maybe systems recovered somewhat, but before dangerous groups get strong.) Where would people recommend we look for a small piece of land for a BOL in this area? Anyone know of an area upstate NY, close enough we could get there in reasonable amount of time, but out of the way enough that it won’t be overrun with refugees? Anyone in NY area know of good prepping groups? I know there is a guy doing some meetups here but I haven’t been able to join any yet. thanks.

  25. I live in Mansfield,TX. Just moved here from lower Alabama. New to prepping but loving this course. I am feeling more empowered every week! Do any peppers live near me? I agree with the strength in numbers! Look forward to hearing from you!

  26. I will go ahead and put in my 2 cents. I live in SE Wyoming. I moved here from TX in 2005. Neither state has state income taxes, but TX property taxes are ridiculous. TX has a much longer growing season, but very hot in the summer. Wyoming is very windy a lot of the time, especially in winter. It is nothing to have days of 40-60mph winds. Wyoming is gun friendly, with permitless carry, either open or concealed. You can pretty much walk into a gun store and buy what you want as long as you are not a felon! No wait. Homeschooling is easy, just copy the scope and sequence or the book contents for the superintendent and they will approve or disapprove of your curriculum. I have never been disapproved. They also have virtual Wyoming, which is a public school online. Taxes are pretty low. We have big government socialists in our state legislature, like everyone else, but we have some legislators with brains too. Crime rates are low in my area, but I don’t know about the rest of WY. I would guess the whole state pretty low as everyone has at least one gun! There are lots of churches to chose from in this area. I have some prepper friends that I met through the Tea Party. We have some really good people here, and some real jerks, just like everywhere. I wish there wasn’t so much wind and the growing season was longer. Like one guy told me, the wind may be lousy, but it keeps the Kalifornians out! It also keeps our air really clean. You can extend the growing season with a greenhouse too.

  27. Great topic as are all!
    We currently live in Orange County, CA and would like to connect with like minded in the area. Our current plan is to be out of CA and in North Texas in about a year and a half.

  28. Would like to meet like minded Preppers living in or near Spring Texas. Would enjoy meeting in person and further discussing surviving in place. There is strength and security in numbers. Look forward to hearing from you.

    • I live and work in the Houston area and am new to prepping. Would like to talk to you more about getting prepared.

    • Howdy,
      I live near you, Robert, and know that anywhere near Houston will be very dangerous & untenable.
      Those of us unable to move will need to band together locally and watch our neighbor hoods very carefully, then learn how to cooperate to share resources and teach one another. A remote retreat would be nice IF it can be effectively guarded, but it may be impossible to get past fuel shortages, roadblocks & gangs once things fall apart.

  29. I have tried to build stores, but we’ve had times, due to medical bills (husband has type 1 diabetes – high metabolism, and I was diagnosed with livable lymphoma) and such when we’ve had to eat from those stores. I also lost the space to store for a while. It really takes a balance of attitude to maintain stored items. We don’t want to live by what if and be afraid, but we don’t want to live as fools and be found without oil in our lamps.

    I don’t think my husband really gives a hoot as to whether we store or not, but reading all of these has renewed my resolve to do so before the food prices climb too much. I’ve paid off almost all debts besides our mortgage, and getting out of debt is part of the plan, but I will be working food storage into the plan as well. We do garden, and I have a “seed bank” to take with us if we had to leave. As someone said before, “live food”, like fruits and veggies is important. I am keeping all of this a matter of prayer, so I don’t get discouraged by financial or personal limitations. I am trusting God to show me what to do and when, and in the mean time, preparing our souls, getting out of debt, making room for storage, getting rid of stuff we don’t need, and considering our bargaining power. …all this and trying to help 2 kids pay for college. Here but by the grace of God Go I.
    Blessings to you all.

    • CherylOfTheNorthwoods says:

      Hang in there sister! Awareness of the situation and at least realizing the need to prep are half the issue. God Bless!

  30. Great Grey says:

    If you think you got emergency power for after an EMP or solar event, think again. Most generators have electronic ignition (many also have other electronic controls this includes Diesel which also may have electronic controlled injectors or fuel pump), and solar cells are solid-state devices (diodes) made with the same technology. Also, most batteries chargers use solid-state regulators. And most wind generators use alternators, that use diodes to give DC power (this also applies to autos).
    Therefore most backup/emergency/off-grid systems will not work either.
    Even if the solar cells survive the blocking diodes and charge controllers are apt to fail.

    • CherylOfTheNorthwoods says:

      EXACTLY why I am set up to be totally off grid in the style of my grandparents. No electrical NOTHIN’!!

  31. I hope the tone of my message doesn’t sound too negative, but here goes! In 2005 we decided it was time to exit the Los Angles/Long Beach area of Southern California. The town I picked has a total population (including the surrounding area) of about 2500. This particular area of the Pacific Northwest was rated as the “best” area to be in the whole Continental United States in “Survival” Magazine in the 1980’s & 1990’s. We are on a body of fresh water, have room for Rabbits, Chickens, a medium sized “truck” garden, and the area has plenty of game, lots of timber, two fishing rivers within 6 miles of town, plenty of rain, and best of all, we have developed friends and neighbors with like concerns who will watch our backs. We have one highway thru town, with no direct access to the Interstate Highway System, so we can feel relatively isolated from the “invading hordes” so to speak. (LOL) For the last several years, we have been collecting small hand tools, gardening tools, weapons and ammo, canned and cured foods, rice, beans, pastas, flour, etc. We have also stocked up on trade items, and a monetary system not related to the Fed and their highly inflated paper currency. I fully believe that the day is coming when our current political system will break down, and for a space of possibly several years, there will be various forms of chaos roaming across the face of America. Communities that stick together and fend off onslaughts, and work together to teach our kids trusted values will survive to become the backbone of a new America. We have rooted ourselves in this community, belong to a Church that has a family of members who feel as we do, and we are not afraid to reach out to others because we feel blessed as the Shepherds of our land. This country can and will survive, but it will be going thru some pretty rough times, folks.

  32. SavvyCowboy says:

    I choose to live in “the sticks” and have for many years. There is plenty of food to harvest in my own back yard (deer, geese, upland game, small game, etc.) and there are approx. 13 people within a 36 square mile (township) area. Yes there are drawbacks (only 60 miles from Canada – it can be VERY cold), but if/when “the balloon goes up” or fecal matter hits the preverbial fan, those of you in the cities will be at the mercy of whatever gangs roam the streets, etc. Don’t worry, I’m armed to the teeth – LOTS of weapons and LOTS of ammo. (Retired military has its bennies) God bless….

  33. rob and kandi lane = send a form please for WVA

  34. one last comment, then i’ll move onto today’s new topic…

    how many of my extended family, friends, and the prepper community are ready for what i consider the biggest threat of all: your government.

    the government that “gives” or “maintains” your rights is certainly powerful enough to take them back.

    one prepping scenarious one should consider is this: what will you do, or where will you go when bigsis, CPS, etc. show up for any of the following: child welfare checkup, vaccine checkups, animal control, some bird/bovine/sheep epidemic, and we’ve come to cull your herds, illegal gardens, checking out a “neighbor complaint”, you have raw milk on your property, your recent credit card purchases show that you’ve been stockpiling and under the ndaa, that’s illegal…and the list goes on and on…

    just a point for consideration. God save us all.

  35. Hello all. these are very interesting posts and I enjoyed each. My family and I live in a large desert city and our biggest concern is lack of water in a long term situation. We have 400 gallons stored but that isn’t enough for a long term plan. Unfortunately we are stuck here and don’t have the ability to relocate. We don’t know our neighbors (no one does) but we do suspect that none are prepared for more than a few days of no services. This means that we have to be very concerned about protecting what we do have. You all who live way out have no idea how blessed you truly are. If and when things do fall apart remember that there will be some decent people trying to escape the big cities who have had no choice in the matter. Maybe shooting first isn’t always the best idea. My husband and I have have started a new blog and would love input from all of you. If you have something in terms of articles or comments that can help us get it off the ground we would love your help.

    thanks,

    Tish

  36. Folks, I haven’t read the many seemingly great comments here as of yet however, I would like to add my thoughts for you to consider. County Sheriffs are, in my opinion, our real last great hope. No law enforcement entity has more power to protect citizens than the Sheriff/Coroner and this includes municiple, state, and federal agencies combined. Sheriffs are elected officials and have sworn an oath to defend the constitution. My suggestion would be to find a verified constitutional Sheriff of a county you would like to live in however, I personally would go for the most constitutional minded Sheriff over the where I would like to live scenario.

    I strongly suggest all to check out the following site which will educate you as to where these fabulous Sheriffs are and what they are all about. constitutionalsheriffs.ning.com/

    I was heavily involved at the recent and first ever Constitutional Sheriff’s Convention held in Las Vegas last month to where about 3 1/2% of the republic’s Sherrif’s attended and I’m here to tell you there just may be some hope afterall. I got to personally know many great Sheriff’s nationwide and I would be welcomed with a red carpet when the SHTF simply by making a call (If we can still call). ;-)

    With my family and I currently residing in the potentially dangerous urban area of Los Angeles (No constitutional minded Sheriff to be found here in the surrounding counties, AFAIK), I am currently working on a plan “B” with one of the most constitutionally minded Sheriffs in this republic and I will be joining his posse and pledge to defend our people legally under his direct supervision. Words can’t explain how powerful this could be if like minded patriots followed suit on a viral basis nationwide. Your thoughts on this would be totally enlightning.

    • CherylOfTheNorthwoods says:

      Yeah, well, out here in the boonies, I really don’t expect the sheriff’s department to protect us. It takes, at best, 25 minutes for them to get here. If society breaks down to the point that we have a “S***-Hit-The-Fan scenario, don’t you think the cops will be at HOME protecting their OWN families? We have all kinds of so-called “Emergency Government” things in place at local, county, state, and national levels. To me, if we have a national CRISIS situation of the magnitude that requires REAL preparedness, it’ll be every person for themselves! I learned many years ago, not to count on anyone but myself. (And Jesus) All else is nothing but empty promises. Ask the folks in New Orleans. I know, they weren’t organized sheriff posses. They were feds, Still. I see no way to assume all sheriff types will be legal law abiding above the board people. There are rotten apples in every orchard. They DO get mixed in the bushel. No way in God’s green earth, am I trusting my life to anyone else.

  37. JoAnn Dolberg says:

    WHY WOULD ANYONE WANT TO PUBLISH THEIR SURVIVAL INFORMATION ON THE INTERNET???????

    • Because for some, the deep seated desire for a survival community is stronger than the instinct to survive alone at all costs. If you’ve ever taken a personality test, like Myers-Briggs, you know that some people are introverted and some are extroverted. In the same way, some people–like me–tend to focus on building a hard, inpenetrable shell around myself and my family that very few people truly get into…kind of like the “inner circle of trust” from Meet The Parents. Others are way more interested in sharing the benefits of preparedness with everyone who will listen, and many who won’t, in the hope that a few will listen and be a part of their “party.” I was very critical of these people for a long time, and still find fault with the lack of Operational Security, but have come to realize how vitally important these people are in getting the message of preparedness out to those who aren’t aware of the need to prepare.

  38. I., for one., had decided to move BEFORE things got tough over twenty years ago after my husband passed away from heart disease.

    I was left with three children ages 17,15 and 10 years of age. I lived in a fairly large suberb of Boston and in a city of thousands which had the largest employer in that area that had closed because of Reagans cutting down on ship-building in the area, Many people lost their jobs and moved to other places where they could continue their field of work.

    I had gione back to work and had the opportunity to buy a house in the rural area of New England. I wanted to make sure my children would be educated and be safe in another place not so near Boston. But I started out just to buy a place for vacations and the summers. I had always wanted to move to a small rural-type country place and I found just what I wanted, Bought it and then decided to move there almost immediately. My children were worreid about leaving their firends and schools but we moved ,and all, but my oldest now- grown children are still close by in the same state and vicinity where I live now in a different town than when I first moved here. Two of my now grown children live in the same state and my son lives in the same town. My youngest daughter and my son have been using wheelchairs due to MD and have college educations. My oldest daughter had moved with us but married and is living where we originally came from. I am happy that we all blended in nicely with our new neighbors and communities and have stayed in the same state for over 20 years now.

    I have the ONE chance i always wanted. A country home. a peaceful scenic locale and good friends. My children adapted to a very different life quite well. My oldest is the only one I worry about now. She is divorced and still lives in the big city where we had left years ago. She is happy where she is and I am worried about her safety in the event of riots etc but she can always pack up and stay here with us if need be.

    I am happy with my decisions, and where I live now that it’s far from Boston and I feel much safer where we are now in our lives. SAFETY is a large factor because of the state of the planet and the country at this time, Take that into consideration, if at all possible, when decidng where to live at this time.

    Alix

  39. StarvinLarry says:

    We have a small group of people with a central bug out location,and two alternates,in case we can not all get to the main location.We are in NE Ohio-so there are a lot of agricultural areas outside of the cities. We have the ablility to be 100% off-grid at all locations,and have food and water at them for all of our families,we can hunt in all the areas-but that will not last long-too many people trying to harvest too little game.We have seeds for vegetables,a means of water treatment,HAM,CB,and hand-held radios,plus a wide array of skills among us,most of us are ex-military,some long ago,some just back from Afghanistan.
    All of our locations are defendable,and can support more than just our families.
    We have enough food and water for everyone for about 6 months now,planning on building up to about an 18 month supply.
    Each location has at least 1 woodburner,and enough split and seasoned firewood for one winter,plus some coal.Usually have more wood,but it’s winter here,and we used a lot of what was stocked up-we will re-supply with firewood soon as weather is nice.
    All of us can shoot multiple firearms,compund bows,crossbows,plus we all have a recurve bow,and plenty of arrows/bolts,extra bowstrings.
    We have the tools to repair anything,and between us the skills to build or repair anything.
    It’s also important to have more than one plan-plan “A” usually doesn’t work out,so you need to have a plan”B”,and a plan “C”.
    Lots of good ideas and comments here.

  40. I live in Colorado springs CO. I love it. Due to my financial and family life a bug out location is kinda unrealistic. I will be bugging in… But I do have a large network of preper friends in a 50 mile range. Point is I can go if needed but a what cost. I say stay where you r till thing calm down if you can, then make a move. If a event does happen there will be total anarchy and the streets will clog up in minutes. I would rather be in a poor bug in location than be half way to my bugout location and get traped in a car on a highway

  41. Whenever I move it will definately be to a property not within a city’s limits. I currently live in a small city in the south. Regardless the city has additional ordinances I have to obey such as not firing an air rifle on my property. wah?!?

  42. Many of you probably know this, but a good book (novel) to get you thinking this way is ‘one second after’. Don’t recall the author, but Gingrich did a forward for it. It’s about life after an EMP. A little hollywood, but real enough to help you think it through.

    • Jack Rabbit says:

      One Second After was by William Forschen. Excellent story. A couple others I’ve read and highly recommend are Alas Babylon (Pat Frank), and Partiots and Survivors both bt James Wesley Rawles.

  43. my backup, backup shelter is down the road-a-ways at camp fema…anyone can show up and ask them for shelter, vaccination updates, and of course, toilet paper…
    looks like a lot of commentators are from backeast, where there’s a longer growing season, and often times, more readily available water.
    in colorado, utah, new mexico, and large parts of why-oming, water is very difficult to find, so i try to consider readily available water sources first and foremost in my planning.
    we need to consider how the poop hitting the fan is realistically going to happen…will it happen gradually, like the frog boiling in the pot? or, will we wake up one morning and marital law will have been declared overnite, and it’s announced in section D of the local paper? or, worst case, will we experience, or survive, an “event” that causes people to lose their ability to make rational decisions and they act like animals preying on each other? I would think that most preppers consider this last scenario as the most likely to occur, but they neglect the more probable first two scenarios.
    Because of this, realistically, when it comes down, most people will need to be prepared to survive in place, wherever that place may be. and what does this mean for most of us? it should mean that if your neighbors are going to the local aid stations, you had better be seen by your neighbors as going to these aid stations as well, or standing in the food lines, etc. You need to create hidden caches of tp, food, etc. in your home. This may mean that you need to build false rooms, floors, ceilings, etc. you won’t be fooling the u.s.army if they come knocking…they’re fresh out of baghdad and with the house-by-house search experiences they gained there…you probably won’t fool them. but, you can fool your neighbors who won’t know what to look for. When they come knocking, you can invite them in to discuss the situation and show them you’re suffering just as much….they won’t see any food,etc. laying around, so you’ll hopefully get off of their hit-lists..
    You need to show them that you’re in as bad-of-shape as they are…maybe even worse…this will also mean that you need to consume fewer calories and lose weight as they’re losing weight, don’t shave, don’t have nice clean clothes, etc.…don’t be seen as the only one who’s packing on the pounds, or you’ll have everything, including your life taken from you…
    Sorry about the long-windedness of this…it’s so important though to get to know our neighbors, so that when they come knocking for help, they’ll do it hat-in-hand, instead of with their guns drawn…keeping your mouth shut ahead of game day will mean everything to your survival chances, and blending in as being needy, will be likewise as important after the game starts.

  44. Jack Rabbit says:

    I’m not sure if it’s perfect or ideal, but we just recently bought our retreat in central Minnesota. The house is able to sleep several families, so having our kids and their families, and maybe a few extended family members won’t be a problem. There is 40 acres of evenly mixed agricultural (for growing food), woods (for heating and hunting) and wetlands (for possible future man-made fishing pond). It has two wells and three septics. It is at a dirt road corner two miles off the county road and five miles from the nearest town that has more than a church, bar and postoffice – it’s three miles from that one ;-)

    I’d like to set up for self-sustainability by utilizing solar for electricity, heat and water, rainbarrel water collection, grey water systems, greenhouses, small animals for food (bees, chickens, rabbits & goats) and vegetable gardening (one acre or less). There are some maples in the woods, but probably not enough to do much tapping for syrup, but would love that too. There is already plenty of clean dry shop space, so I’ll be able to make things as needed and as my skills increase. I’ve been studying and practicing gunsmithing for several years now which would be a useful skill & trade. We’ve been reading and stocking dozens of preparedness, homesteadng and skill-based books, and have quite a reference library.

    The place is defendable, although it’s not far enough off the road for my liking. We are now able to pactice our gun handling and marksmanship without having to go to an expensive range. There is plenty of room inside for storage and making secret places. The neighbors around are friendly and seem like they’d be able to be organized to be part of the same team. I’ve noticed a bunch are Vietnam vets, and that actually makes me feel more comfortable.

    So, for my mind, we’ve found the ideal permanent retreat for us, although the winters may be harder than many places, but that will help to keep the population down. Now, it comes down to how well this city slicker can pull off the transition to a whole new life.

    • CherylOfTheNorthwoods says:

      Welcome to the woods!! Your place sounds to be quite similarly situated as mine. One thing I did that should have been done differently.. I got all the animals at once. I should have gotten them one species at a time and THEN added the next. It worked out ok in the long run, but was a headache the first year. (I was all alone here when I moved in) Talk to folks at feed mills. They are an EXCELLENT resource for all kinds of free advice on animals and gardening. You can make MANY gallons of maple syrup from just 2 or 3 trees! I do it almost every year. Best wishes. You WON’T regret moving up there. I LOVE northern Wisconsin and would never leave here.

  45. I live in a villageof 1500 people nerby a national road that that will take me to a bigger city of 85 000 people and my workplays in 15 minutes. 35 minutes away is the biggest town of 150000 people. In the region there is no risk of dangerous animals, no nuclear or chemical plants nearby, earth quakes, volcanos, extreme weathers other than ordinary winter storms etc. Low risk of terroist attacks or close encounters of virus infected hords of looters compared to an more urban area. This mean that I can prepare to survivive in place in a small farm community that can easily be closed and protected from outsiders if neccesary and provide everybody with food like greens, eggs, poultry, meat, from the farms and fish from the nearby lakes and rivers. I still have the possability to go to the bigger cities to use the convinence of an urban region and still grow a lot of my own foods, have my own clean water source and fire wood from the nearby woods. My house is camouflaged as just another ordinary house on the brink of the village without anything special so its no higher risk to be targeted then the next house. Preparations ar all hidden inside the structure of ordinary buildings and no body nows the magnitude of my preparation. .

  46. Rob and Kandi Lane, can you post contact info?

  47. Thanks David, for evoking the participation and comments I’ve read on this site. I’m enjoying the lessons. My background and training, leave me questioning the programs that prompt bugging out. The most critical of survival decisions, are usually related to your locale, your familiarity with not only topography, but with the types of people living there, and with the people who are going to show up there in a disaster. I can survive short term by shooting first, but long term, I’ll need trusted community support. If something happens to me, my wife and kids need someone dependable within reach, who will assist them in surviving. Although not ideal in many ways, my location is surrounded by many friends and family, and I know it like the back of my hand. I’ll be able to defend us far better here than in a place I’m not acquainted with, which may also be defended by some other prepper who is standing his ground. To him I’d just be another interloper. I’m therefore concentrating on your training to become more alert and prepared to survive in place.

  48. I see prepping as being ready for multiple situations, including the one where nothing bad happens. So if your ideal lifestyle is to grow or kill all your food and live off the grid you are way ahead of most people and you should live where you can do that. If not find someplace that you are happy. I love to waterski and my wife loves to garden. We found a place that is on a clean skiable lake with a very large lot. It also has 2 outbuildings, well and septic, no HOA, no cop lake, lake pump to water gardens. Last fall I built my wife a small greenhouse and we are trying to learn heirloom seed gardening. My wife loves it and it fits into my prepper plans. I think you should be at your BOL as the road will be very dangerous place to be after TSHF.

  49. I’ve been reading most of these posts, i always think of the worst case scenario,
    Just for the sake of nonbelievers in Jesus,
    with that said, I haven’t read any post’s about the Honey Bee, (pollination)
    Some one said that when they disappear we have at most 4 years then we wont have any food, And they are disappearing ,so having a garden (unless you can all that you think you will need) wont be a good thing. Not to mention if your from Cains Blood line the earth wont give you food anyway. Now with that said I think every one should pray to God /Jesus, and hope he will save this planet, for the sake of the repenting people, Keep on praying.

    • CherylOfTheNorthwoods says:

      People forget there are a LOT more things out there that pollinate besides honey bees.( I used to raise honey bees until I could no longer keep up with the bear damage to my hives.) Paper wasps, house flies, garden spiders, even birds go a long way toward keeping flowering plants producing. I hate to see the bee populations so decimated as they had been a few years ago, but I have heard they have been making a pretty good come-back. Yes, prayer helps! I just wish the USA hadn’t gotten so immoral; the Lord has no reason to protect us anymore.

  50. Thanks for the opportunity to comment.

  51. The weather, yes that was my main motive. Born in the east middle Atlantic community of Baltimore, MD. were the winters are mostly slushy and cold and the summers are heat and heat rash, after two years in the late ’40s in Southern California while in the Marine Corps, I arrived back home with but one purpose. Find a way to get back to Southern California. After some education via the G.I Bill, marriage to a childhood sweetheart, getting a job at a local major aerospace company that had operations on the west coast, ten years later I got a company paid transfer and have been here for the last fifty-three years. As for catastrophic events, I sleep through most of the eathquakes and do not live any where there could be a forest fire.

  52. We live in a Small town in the Texas Hill Country and would like to survive in place there allong with our family who live in a nearby large city. Does this sound practical? Population of our small town is around 5000. Also, what would be the best way of communicating with the family in the city, if cell phones are down?

    • CherylOfTheNorthwoods says:

      Ham radio is an EXCELLENT option, for communication. You can get a small solar set up with a battery charger and a deep cycle battery or two and run it entirely off-grid!! Because my house has a height of 40 feet, located on one of the biggest hills in the county, I can actually travel “under the radar” and install the antenna INSIDE the house in my attic!! It isn’t as costly as you’d think either. I’m getting started on getting my operator’s permit. Harbor Freight has a decent set of solar panels pretty cheap, too.

  53. Hafta admit, I am fairly new to this prepper lingo, but as a member of a certain religion that for 50+ years has counseled us as members to obtain and maintain at least a years supply of food, I am not new to that. My wife and I have made the decision to be obedient and have worked hard to build up that supply, but haven’t as yet “gotten there”. I love this website, and spend a lot of time here getting ready for what I and apparently many others feel is imminent.
    My problem right now is that for the last 30+ years I have been a contractor, and as we all know, I have been basically unemployed now for the last 2 years! It is almost impossible to follow thru with our plan to become independent in any area, plus we live in a city of about 300,000 plus citizens. Our home has no wood-burning fireplaces, nor can we afford to install the necessary ducting etc. My biggest worry is how to heat our home when tshtf. We have a couple of 90 lb propane tanks that are full, but I know how quickly that will be used up for cooking etc, and is only a short term solution anyway. Any ideas out there for like minded folks? I do have the necessary defense area covered, but long term water, and heat are our Achilles heel. We do have the mountains within blocks of our house, so hunting can be done also. We live in the northwest so you know how cold and long winter can be. Thanks for any suggestions in advance, and keep working on it!

    • Kevin, I think you are fortunate to be a contractor, because now you can do so much for yourself. Have you thought of installing a wood burning stove, such as a pot belly one that can just vent out a wall? You could cook on it and close off the room and live there when the temps got too cold. It might be hard to pass building codes now, but if all breaks loose, building codes will be the least of your problems. All will do what is necessary for survival.
      We purchased a volcano stove to cook on and it can work with just little branches off dead limbs of trees. (Outside cooking only with it.) Save your propane for emergency! If TSHTF, it may be all you will ever get again.

  54. Seven years ago I moved from a highly populated state to a low populated one where I knew no one. I used that opportunity to start using a different first name. Knowing that things like driveways and power lines are dead giveaways to retreats, I opted to live and work in a small city about an hour away from the national forest area where I purchased my secluded acreage and built and off-grid retreat. It is in a mountain community where we can easily control access by controlling a single bridge and surrounded by people who have farmed, hunted, and heated with wood for generations. Being located between two other homesteads on a gated former logging road, my neighbors watch it through the week. It only takes about an hour to get there by highway, two by secondary roads, and several riding the dual sport motorcycle on the rail trail.

    Important criteria included low property taxes, a culture of self-sufficiency, plentiful job opportunities, Fertile land, plentiful water and wild game were necessary attributes. It is not west of the Mississippi, but in an area of no greater population densities than those areas in the west that will be habitable without electric water movement for drinking and irrigation. Since it is far from major highways and inaccessible without 4WD so we do not worry about the golden horde.

  55. David, I like your style of writing/education. You try to engage and encourage your readers to THINK. Many of your readers have given very good responses and others no so much.
    I live in southeast Los Angeles, County and have a business 22 miles away in Orange, County. If you check googlemaps for Los Angeles County you can find me a little northeast of the dot that says Long Beach and my company is just east of the dot that says Santa Ana. The biggest threat in this area is earthquake, second civil unrest. With my commute and just a regular workday, I can expect to be at home about 61% of the time. If I’m at home, with our supplies, three days would be a walk in the park, three weeks would be easy but boring (I guess I would catch up on my reading), three months we would have to start hauling water. If I’m at work or in between then the problems begin. I’m 72 and my business partner has a hip problem that makes it painful for her to walk any great distance. Given this, it might take as much as three days to walk home. It would be even worse if this situation was civil unrest such as a race war. I’ve plotted a couple of footpaths to home, but the biggest concern came from a question posed by one of my friends, “are you prepared to fight your way home?”
    It is not ideal, but I’m forced say that I would just hunker down where I am and wait it out. Once again take a look at the LA map and tell how the nearly 10 million people in LA county would get out of town using the six majors available? Two hundred miles to the Arizona border; by the time you got there the barricades would be up (everyone hates Californians) then where do you go?

  56. it’s beyond my understanding how anyone can see what’s going on around us and still not grasp what’s happening have tried to tell my kid’s what the deal is and they just don’t get it,guess when there’s no power or food in the house mayby they will still have a 10 year old that i have to take care of so keeping her safe is my main concern i live in a pretty good area but i have seen how people get when people get hungry and cold it ant pretty cant say that in the end a mob wont drag me down but i plan on taking a few with me,frankly i’m not sure that there will be any place safe in the end mayby its just trying to hold on as long as possable and praying for some intervention from god.

  57. Atokaite TN says:

    Relocation invlovles a lot of Pre Planning. One factor is simply getting there.
    Autos, rail, air, short distance trailing, are factors to be considered.
    If the scenes are chaotic, then protection is paramount, self, family, and property.
    You have to consder terrain, rivers, flood areas, road conditions, distance, ability to literally camp out, during any chaos ridden trip.
    Distance is crucial factor. Plan for food, water, shelter, and emergency failures.
    All this is really basic.
    I planned a autor trip, scenairo, full of sunshine, etc, till I realised I was bounded by 3 uncrossable rivers, with no means of forging with bridgers out.
    An example.
    End
    Semper Fi

  58. Susan Beiner says:

    Reading the information from others does make me a little concerned. I am one who is stuck in South Florida, in a fairly metropolitan area. My husband and I are slowly fortifying our home as we feel we are going to have to “ride it out” from home. It takes at least 6 hours to even think about getting out of the state and at the present time, we are not able to move. We will somehow have to make it as urban survivors.

  59. Cathy Matthews says:

    some people do not have the resources or option to relocate to a safe retreat or one that they feel would be safe. What we have done is become very familar with the neighbors around us and what their attitudes are to what is going on in the world and pretty much how they would react in an emergency, short term or long term and what skill sets they have. we are keeping a low profile but the ones that think like us know who we are and we know who they are. I live in the heart of a small city, but have found that i can grow food in our back yard and no one really notices. I know where in the state to find clean water and where we can hunt for food and where to find game. even if you can not relocate there is a lot that you can do and remain low key to provide for you self, family and trusted friends. I enjoy your site and find it very helpful.

    • StarvinLarry says:

      One thing to consider if you plan on hunting to supply yourself with food-if you are near any urban area-the game will be depleted very quickly.

  60. I certainly understand the concern people have for their family members and themselves. My daughter and son-in-law have had the same for me. I came very close to moving where they live, but that would mean giving up the last 70 years I’ve spent in my state. There are plusses and minuses going both ways.
    If I were to move to the state where my family is I would be starting over from scratch. I am an acquaintance of only a few people there. I have no real friends there at all; no one I could depend on (my family have their own jobs, and both work long hours; sometimes 6 or even 7 days a week). The people in the retirement community are for the most part much older than I am.
    There are some medical facilities in the area, but the only major cancer treatment center is an hour-and-a-half away–one way. The doctors I need would all be new, and I would have to develop new relationships with them. All the medical personnel I have near me are good, and I’d hate to lose them.
    I would have to have someone drive me practically everywhere I went. Nothing is walking-distance close where my family lives.
    The activities I’ve done in the past would no longer be available to me at the new location.
    The retirement center doen’t believe in fences to control pets. My little dog is kind of a wanderer, and I’d lose her for certain without a fence. She just wouldn’t remember how to get home; and she’s all I have since my wife died.
    My neighbors watch out for me, and help me when I need help. Visiting Angels has been a big help too.
    A big one for me not to move is that I’d have to purchase a new home and go back into debt for it. That is something I’d like to avoid. Selling my home would present me with a financial loss, and that would cut into what my family would receive as part of their inheritance; another point I’d like to avoid.
    As far as security is concerned, I know the lay-of-the-land where I am, and the possible access and exit routes. An outsider wouldn’t know these routes, and that is to my advantage. Where my family lives, i am clueless about these routes.
    So the decision has been made. I’ll stay put and take my chances, what ever comes my way. I know God will watch out for me, and will guide my steps accordingly.
    I’m also interested in what other people have decided on this subject.
    God bless to all…

  61. David, back for second time working through the comments. Good discussion topic. If I recall “Tappan on Survival” correctly, Mel’s thoughts on a 10k community size went beyond adequate mix of skills and size for a decent militia. He stressed a rural community because their lifestyle was self-sufficiency, adaptability, and make do.

  62. Rob and Kandi Lane says:

    You know it’s a crying shame that it has come down to this, but here’s my solution.
    I have decided to start my own colony, invitation open to anyone who can benefit to the community. West Virginia, the mountain state. Nestled back in the middle of no where. The u.s. best kept secret. Honestly folks how many times do you here the weather man even point out West Virginia. A very large parcel to accommodate agriculture, small homes with solar, community kitchen, medical center, black smith, water treatment plant, and everything Elsa you can think of. RSVP for when times get bad.. If you have contingency plan this may be one you consider. If your interested email me (safe haven) I’ll send you a form you fill it out sign and return

    • victor hayes says:

      Lets talk

    • David Evans says:

      Rob and Kandi. My wife, son and I live in Arkansas at this moment in a suburban area. over the last three years we have build over 1000 square feet of garden and have developed food storage. what the exercise has produced is how far we are from self suffecient. I am interested in your West Virginia plan. I am also working on plans here in Arkansas. We will survive, God Willing!

    • SAFE HAVEN
      I’m retired Army – was a SF Medic and later after getting married, a Lab tech. Presently practice as a Physician Assistant. I grow an assortment of vegetables and am moderately(?) handy with tools.
      I’m interested in knowing more…thank you!

  63. If I remember correctly, the bible says Christians will live through the first 3½ years of the tribulation — something to consider.

    To feed a family of four for that amount of time, it would take about 27,000 lbs (almost 14 tons) of food, which is enough to fill an 8×8-foot room floor-to-ceiling (not allowing room for shelving or access).

    Add to that 1000 gallons of propane for heating, plus some for cooking; and 6000 gallons for power generation (for just 2.5 kW — what some would consider minimal usage). A 10,000 gallon tank would be 7 ft dia. x 33 ft long.

    Better get cracking!

    • CherylOfTheNorthwoods says:

      I am preparing to live totally self-sufficiently without counting on expendable and potentially not replaceable things like fossil fuels or propane. I have a generator but would never use it on a regular basis.. I can’t see being tied to gasoline and then at a loss when it’s gone. Just a thought.

      • StarvinLarry says:

        Gasoline generators can be run on ethanol-which you could produce yourself,just to have the capability for extra power above and beyond solar panels when needed.-such as if you had to weld something.
        Just a thoughtsounds like you have an ideal situation-good location,and the needed skills.

        • CherylOfTheNorthwoods says:

          Well, my thought is this.. Yeah, have a still and am able to produce alcohol. But, a generator makes a LOT of noise, even with a decent muffler on it. Noise only leads other outsiders directly to you; you obviously have more resources to pillage if you have a generator. I would only use my generator in the short go, after the poop hits. In that time, and I’m only talking maybe a few weeks, there won’t be much “movement” of other people this far north. I have only planned to use the genny in the transition time, before I go totally off grid again. Mostly I think I’ll use it to fill the big stock tanks I use to water the animals (350 gallons each) I will go back to complete hand or horse-powered EVERYTHING. If I or the horses can’t pull, push, drag or otherwise accomplish a task, it probably isn’t something i need to do anyway. Certainly not planning on running a washing machine (I have the hand-op one from Lehman’s and it works GREAT), no need for electrical things in general. I’m so used to things like the treadle sewing machine and hand water pumps, I could live without pretty much all the gadgets. And, won’t need to leave the place anyway. Alcohol production would be mainly for “medicinal” purposes, and entertainment ;o)

  64. Capt. Fair says:

    No man is an island. Survivability is enhanced by preparedness, but no plan can accomodate every contingency. Nor is any single solution adaptable to changing circumstances. At any time, skill training is the most effective means of preparedness. Effective skill training should include: self defence, emergency medical treatment, and self sustenance.
    Survivabilty should be prepared for on three planes. First, to survive in place. Second, transient survivability. Third, long term survivability in a self-sustaning environment. Mutual reliance increases survivabilty on each of the three planes, for no individual confronted in overwhelming force can prevail. No location, however initially hidden, can remain so indefinitely.
    First, to survive in place in an urban environment, one must accumulate basic resources to provide for a designated survival group for a period of up to 30 days. Prior to or at least by that time period most urban environments will become untenable.
    Transient survivabilty is most practical within a radius of 250 miles ( assuming availability of mechanical transport) and is dependent upon prior knowledge of multiple escape routes. Major interstate highways should be avoided and, in an extreme situation, railroad routes should be considered. Enough supplies should be included to extend the evacuation period over two weeks and should be packaged for for individuals to carry if mechanical transport breaks down.
    The ultimate goal is reaching a sustainable environment. The best preparedness is through prior identification of such a location and preparedness of that location. The sustainable location must include tillable and forested land with one or more sources of water. It should be in a location that has medical resources within five miles and/or a trauma rated hospital within 15 miles. Additional advantageous factors would be that the location has a local agricultural base with a market for livestock. Also, one might include a location that has some degree of manufaturing to provide for building materials and a small university or college for educational/ informational repositorys.
    Many plans that are discussed seem to deal with an ultimate scenario. It may be worthwhile to consider a ” halfway point ” that addresses life in an environment that is liveable today yet contains the essential elements for longer term mutual support should broad resources suddenly be cut off.
    God Bless us All. In the words of Abraham Lincoln, ” Let not him who is houseless pull down the house of another, but let him labor diligently to build one for himself.”

    • Atokaite TN says:

      Excellent post.
      Transient movement entails a lot of physical ability. Barriers such as flat land rivers, bidges out, Local Defense barriers will prohibit folks of “an age” from moving.
      The expectation on many sites seem to indicate a regional/area grouping of populations.
      Thinking about the 1930s dust storm migrations, one recalls the Guvmnt set up transient camps for theat migration.
      In todays world i dont belive that will occur.
      Semper Fi
      End

  65. One other thing I forgot to mention, which is the most important, is to avoid panic. If you have prepared for what may, and most likely, will come, then you must remain clear minded and pragmatic. Being able to maintain a clear mind during a time of chaos will impart a clear message to your family, letting them know that, at least within the family, everything is under control. They will best be able to avoid panic if they are well trained and understand what their role is in the family’s emergency plan. This also includes a predetermind place of rondezvous, should family members be separated during a crisis. One last thing, is the fact that emergency back packs (kits) need to be in the trunk of any car you’re driving. One of the best things that I learned as a Boy Scout, was the term “Be Prepared.”

  66. If a person has an isolated retreat they can escape to and they can do it before the SHTF, then that would be an ideal situation. However, due to the present economy, realistically, most people are tied to jobs and family. So, if you don’t get advanced warning of what’s coming, then the best thing to do is be ready to survive in place. This means having adequate water water and food supplies, a secured home, emergency supplies and the abiltiy to defend your home and family (be armed). Have precut 3/4 inch plywood, numbered, to board up your windows. It’s clear that folks are going to need each other in order to survive, but you don’t want to advertise what you have to “friends and neighbors”. The term “neighbor” and, especially the term “friend” doesn’t mean what it used to. Besides “zombies” (roving bands of looters), you’re going to have to worry about your neighbors attacking you and stealing anything they can, even if it means harming or killing you and your family. The truth is that if the SHTF, the highways will be glutted with traffic and it will become a parking lot. These folks will be helpless and exposed to danger. They will become “zombies”, who will end up as looters, or refugees in FEMA concentration camps. If one must escape, don’t take the main roads or highways. Have a geo-topographic map of the USA and travel off road. You’ll have to cross roads, but never travel on one. Don’t rely on GPS, but instead, know how to orient yourself with a map and compass. Travel with a light rifle, preferably a 22LR, as you will be able to carry allot of ammunition. An AR7 by Henry is the best, because it fits neatly in a backpack and it floats. Carry several other hand guns, in 22LR (Ruger Mark III) or (Ruger) 22LR/22mag (Single Six). Carry freeze dried food or MRE’s, nuts, rasins and other fried fruits and candy. One jar of honey. One bottle of hydrogen peroxide. One first aid kit. Carry a water filter, which will allow you to drink water as you go (local outdoor store carries them). Carry as much water as you can. A camel pack would be very good. Dress for all weather, preferalbly in Gortex. Have good walking boots and as many changes of underwear and socks as possible. Have a small crank radio, a signaling mirror, a good fixed blade knife for each person, a fishing hook with line, a small bolt cutter, ponchos that double as tents, nylon rope. Each person needs a hardwood walking stick at least their own height (with knife, can serve as spear). It’s important to stay as dry as possible. Have a machete and a saw blade in the group. Avoid groups of people and trust no one. If challenged by a group of people, if you can’t escape them, shoot first, ask questions later, otherwise, you and yours will be dead. In the world of survival, there are the quick, and the dead. Oh! If you can afford it, buy gas masks with extra filters and this is regardless of whether you’re on the road, or surviving in place, at home.

    • CherylOfTheNorthwoods says:

      I am EVER so thankful that I live at my “remote retreat” all the time! I have no idea how city people can stand living in urban areas. I wouldn’t last 5 minutes.
      i will take the bears and wolves we have up here any day. At least their motives are “pure” if they try and kill you… they need to eat!!!!

  67. Bill in Peterborough, Ont. Just want to let the folks know of a really great set of books that will help you understand what is going on. They are called the Uncle Eric books by Richard J. Maybury. Thank you David

  68. Although God provides for the sparrows, they must seek and find the food, endure danger from every threat so they must too have a “bug out” plan to escape to survive— they migrate in great effort every year to find food when it is gone. Nothing is handed in our laps. We too will find times we have to flee for survival, it has happened since life began.

    To answer Davids question where to flee when SHTF, each to one’s own in wisedom. Anywhere has risks, but a place of least risks should be taken into careful consideration.

    I found a website from a survivor of Argentina’s collapse, THOUGHTS ON URBAN SURVIVAL, Life in Post-Collapse Argentina, Oct. 2005. There were many things to think about when this student was caught in the collapse of their economy. Here is the website:

    www.rapidtrends.com/surving-argentinas-economic-collapse-part-1-3/

    Even though I live in my Bug Out place, I moved here expecting a disaster for years and coincidently, it was also where I always wanted to live my whole life with or without a national disaster.

    My place is where 5 other people’s Bug Out place is to go to, so I will have an instant community when a disaster happens. I also have most my relatives who have land/cabins not 20 miles away, all tucked away in isolated places in the Chippewa National Forest. It is better to have a place close to some people you know and trust than be strangers to everyone when you move in a national disaster.

    Up here in the Northern Minnesota wilderness I took in account that there are very rare few tornados, no hurricanes, no big fault lines, no tidal waves, no floods, very few people, plenty of natural food, water, and wood for fuel, cheap property, and 13 miles close to hospital and a small town.

    Jade’s post is close to what I have, but he mentioned tools and using them.

    One of the most important things for survival is having a skill for trade and barter. I kept a tradition of my great grandmother who was a pioneer near Carton, Mn. in the 1890’s— I sew and make clothing out of natural wool and leather for a living. People can bring me animal hides and wool blankets and I can make warm coats, shoes, harnesses, shirts, even quilts from scraps.. Sewing is a necessary skill, along with wood working, farming, machinist skills, ironsmithing, and many of the old skills we have lost to China. I think those who are concerned are creating a resurgence in primitive skills.

    20 years ago I found good reading with Eric Sloane Books; “Diary of an Early American Boy” and “In Reverence of Wood” which talks about the ways of early american life and how they managed it in a primitive society.

  69. Spartacus 2012 says:

    Hi,

    Well, I’ve got my place n the sun. It’s on 75+acres of the most fertile land n the world just a few seconds of Longititud from the Equator. There is Banana, Cocoa, Lemons and other goodies growing there n quantity now. It also has literally ton ofr bamboo for pyrolysis systems and a River where I own both banks for a diistance sufficient to give me a 60″head pressure fro usng hydraulic Ram pumpps for irrigation of the whole place. All I need to do is built a fort out there and find some people to hellp me with t for a very few years. The fort is nothing here – mosst housing is walled and securely locked n my country. It its truly anation of theves and liars. It is like living in Israel East except it claims to be a Christian/Catholic country. But things just jump out of the ground here – I”talking food. A Friend down th estreet where I am currently living has aa Almond tree growing outfront. Just fo laughs I pcked up a few of th fallen pods and plunked them nthe Soll. 2 of the three are now growing well.

    About the only good hng here other than the land itself is our government’s management of our fuel supplies. We too are an energy exporter. No, you can’t drnk the water. t i so acidc that whart passses for stainless steel kitchen items corrde overnight nthe water. so you drnk botled water – hoping it ddn’t come out of someone else’s spgot or you process your own. There is a full tme srping on the farm providing sufficient water for residents. I hope to acctract soem retirees – specifically a doctor – to the place to care for the residents and the workers. Workers s a euphimism. No one works here – especially he government employees.No matter what they tell you their prime objectv eis to make sure there is a lne of people around the block daly demanding their services. Tha’s how theyjusify themselves.

    But the qualtiy of the fruits and vegetables is unbelievable.Shen you gp to the week end Farmer’w market on any weekend you are almost overcome by theexotic scents of fruits and vegetables that were n the ground onon th e trees only a few hours prevously.

    There are NO TAXES on raw produce. Cook it and you owe a tax plus the cost of the propane and your personal time to prepare it. But you can trade food for almost anything. And that is the good thing. When the U$D collapses and the global food system follows t into distant memories of plenty barter will be the answer. That and precous metals and other trinketws. But the real money will be arms and ammunition. Idon’t like the idea but Ii am heavily armed at all times. I’m old but I’m nasty. I’d rather wound you than kill you outright. There i a certin joy n watching your lghts go out.

    You either stole from me or cheated me or threatened me.

    Anybody nerested n working wth your hands or in community development? Got about $75K to spend on your own fortress next to mine? Lemme Know.

    PS – you muwst absolutely LOVE DGOS. havf 5 – all reswcues n one form or another.

    Sorry about the typosw – nerve damage from Type II diabetes.

    Sncerely Spartacus 2012 – ‘m a slave an so are you. Wanna do sumpthin’aboout it. Then do it.

  70. I moved into what I had felt was a pretty good area to stay when things got bad, until after being here awhile I realized that a lot of people on the run from the law have apparently also found this semi-out of the way place a good place to live. After living here for about eight months I’m looking for another place to live, roughtly in the same part of Texas, but away from this particular neighborhood. More and more lately the police are here looking for drug dealers and other criminals who have chosen this out of the way place to hide out. It is relatively inexpensive, well-built, fireplace, really off the path, with wells, septic system, lot of things I was looking for. The only neighbors I have found, who would otherwise be very handy in a bad situation, have apparently moved here to die, as three of my closest neighbors have cancer, two of them in the terminal stage. One of them, a young former Border Patrol agent, would have been an excellent help if things got bad, but the poor fellow can barely even walk now. His truck was broken into the other night and over $2000 worth of his pain and cancer meds were stolen from the truck, as well as his entire Border Patrol uniform. He and his son had noticed people watching them pack the stuff in the truck, they were going into town to turn in his uniform as there is no way he will ever be able to work again. They heard the truck being broken into around 3:30am, he went out with his gun and they saw the men run away. The police were out there for hours and did get some good prints off his truck. But this is the type people who prey on those around here. I watch his house now whenever there are no vehicles in front, as I figure when they discover all the pain meds in his truck, they will try to come back to go through his house if they think no one is there. In fact, I saw a vehicle that resembled the one he and his son described near his house the other day when no one was at home, so I just stood there and stared at them until they drove off. And I have asked other neighbors to do the same, in the shape this man is in, I’m not sure he is capable of making sure his house is always secure, so we’re trying to watch out for him. Another neighbor who could have been good help in a bad situatiion has pancreatic cancer and has been told he will not be around much longer. He’s doing better than expected, decided to forego chemo and radiation to keep his health as long as possible, and so is not sick as a dog trying to get rid of a cancer that usually doesn’t go away regardless of treatment. The next door neighbor has a reoccurance of her cancer, AND is a drug abuser, so is totally not to be trusted and I have learned to be avoided. She came over here stoned in the middle of the night yelling and carrying on, never did find out what had her upset. It was hard to get rid of her, and I have avoided any contact with her since then. We thought she was drunk at first, but she admitted she was stoned. Totally irrational behavior. And the only other person I’ve really gotten to know works out of the state most of the time. I watch her dogs for her, but she is here less than one week a month, at most, so really in all liklihood would not be available in any emergency situation. In fact, her job entails being available to evacuate Americans from foreign countries in case of civil disturbances in other countries, so if there was an emergency, she would surely be called to work even if she was here when the emergency occurred. None of these people have any idea of what emergency supplies I have accumulated, not do I plan to tell them. If necessary, I would, if still here, do as Dave has suggested, and leave food and/or other supplies outside their homes, but do not feel as if any of them would be an asset to have here in my house, nor to even help watch out for intruders. My dogs and soon to be purchased gun(s) will be it. and I do intend to have supplies on hand to supplement the security at my house, which is against the terms of my lease at this moment. I think the management would likely take off if things got out of hand and we would be on our own. Hopefully they don’t just evict us all to attempt to save the buildings.

    • Melohawk says:

      I hear ya. Being financially unable to purchase land or build a home, I live in an RV park and am thankful that the owners are, in a small way, set up for survival. Even with a well, wood stove and plenty of land around us (not to mention a river – terribly polluted but with effort could be used to generate power) they are NOT properly outfitted to last LONG. I have tried to tell them that we need to prepare for whatever comes along, especially since we have had major electrical problems during the last two ice storms. They bought a gasoline generator (I have two) and tried to run their house on it – that took down their fridge. There is no way to get at the water if the electricity goes out. There is no talking to them about any costly improvements, although I have been trying for 6 yrs., because they plead money problems,. The husband is gone out of the area all the time with various work options, the wife has her own business and is working herself to death trying to pay the bills.

      They have not used common sense in looking ahead and making plans. They are generally not working TOGETHER and this is going to make a difference in their survival. Also we are all from a western state and have moved to a mid-west, tight knit community. I have, due to my occupation, made connections and worked my way into the community, they haven’t. They have a few “friends” but, other than one relative, they don’t have the type of solid connections that they are going to need to survive.

      I’ve tried to engage them in conversation about making the RV park a sanctuary of complimentary skills based on long term residents rather than transients. Also I’ve encouraged them to develop the park towards an off-the-grid ideal. Always the “money factor” derails the conversation. We live in tornado alley and they don’t even have a storm shelter. Granted we found that to dig anywhere on the property will bring up water, we have a very shallow well, but a brick bunker built into the side of a hill (there is a second level of land that is perfect for this) is a no-brainer; even a railroad car outfitted for shelter would do it, not to mention what a great root cellar it would be!

      So, I stock up with what I can and with what space I can afford to use for that purpose. I always have jugs of water on hand, a pantry stocked with canned goods, back-up energy sources, extra money on hand (learned to do that when the CA back country burned up and there was no access to bank ATMS, gasoline was running out and scum-bags were selling small bottles of water at $5 a bottle). My landlords have even let me take a small amount of their land for a garden. However, last year’s drought killed that along with most of the other gardens around. I live on less than $2000 a month so MRE’s and all manner of bug-out supplies are beyond me. Sometimes the best items for survival are the smallest, most portable nondescript things you can pass off as everyday ordinary stuff. I always have a large knife with me in my vehicle, tucked between the seat and the console, a sleeping bag behind the driver’s seat, along with the normal stuff you should have with you in case you are stranded. If I need to live off the land, I will probably get pretty hungry but I can learn to eat what the animals eat even though I probably won’t be able to bring myself to eat them. . .

      Being self-employed in an educational skill that isn’t a “necessity”, I have the lowest income in the whole area (of those who actually work, very few here do- mostly a welfare based/government Indian rolls society) yet I am more prepared than most. I will also be keeping my mouth shut as to what little I have stocked up and be very leery about whom I share with.

      The option of moving, because of the kind of income I need, would be difficult as it takes two years (with enough money in the bank) to get my type of business rolling no matter WHERE I would go. It took almost 5yrs to get it back up and running this time. Due to my age (64) I don’t think I can start over again. However, if offered a community where I would be an asset and NOT a liability, I would definitely consider it.

      I do not want to “red-flag” my situation by claiming soc sec or asking for any kind of help. I am one of the beleaguered baby-boomers who will be anxiously waiting out the supreme court decision on the mandate option of Obama-care and the out come of the Nov 2012 elections. After I see what transpires, I will be more able to plan out how my future will evolve. If the mandate option of Obama care can’t be repealed, I will have to basically “vanish” as I simply do not have the income to afford health insurance – don’t need it anyway as I use homeopathic remedies and specialists, naturopathic methods, etc. and pay for it outright (overall it’s cheaper and you actually are CURED). Natural health remedies are not covered in health insurance. I also won’t be able to afford the escalating fines that will be looming over my head for each year I don’t comply. I realize that in this day and age “vanishing” will almost be impossible but you CAN become so inconsequential as to be not worth bothering about. You just need to be careful of being so nondescript as to be “expendable”. Fine line there . . .

      • Melohawk. I’ve been into survival locations since Y2k. Fiinally found an ideal combination rural area in the midwest thats more than affordable for your situation. and it has a well established self sufficient neighborly community network. Abundant post apocolyptic resources and security, nice people. Best water, minimal G, CC OC and Castle doctrine. Lots of retired LEOs Military, turned hobby farmers. Lots of women over fifty coming into the area to self sustain because of the totally secure environment. In my rural neigborhood we’d all be able to survive in place. Best kept secret rural RV camp only 100. per month. with pool & cozy bar & grill and ‘off-gridable’ sites. Very private, area food is cheap, but losts to do to keep from being bored. Contact me for more info.

  71. John Whittington says:

    Buddhists live the same way as your wife, but when they move to the U.S. they put their temples up on top of a hill to get away from the liberals!

  72. stephen vaughn says:

    folks, Tx is a great state..as a retired police officer who served in USMC and reserve airborne ranger co. in Tx. for 8 yrs., I am a prepper 75yrs old. many years ago, was a bakery engineer, but now just an old fart, but still good with weapons. well armed for wtshf. looks like we are in end times, but Jesus Christ controls history. have had C 3 times, but ok now. have enough mre’s and dried food for about 6 mos. and mucho water to last for 6 mos. mom and me arn’t going anywhere. the Lord will provide. we are going through tribulation now, but NOT the great trib. we’ll (Christians) be in heaven watching for the 7 yrs to end and our Lord to return. HE promised we won’t be tested beyond what we can bear…God bless….pop

    • Amen, but don’t forget living food too. Sprouts or a garden or even plenty of dandelion greens, good in a salad or cooked for 90 seconds in a little boiling water (I drink the juice). Look into all natural multi-vitamins like ALIVE and extra magnesium to help ward off cancer. Six or seven almonds or walnuts or even pecans each day will help too. Blueberries you grow yourself are also very beneficial. I mention some of these things in my lastest book and I as I said above, pray about everything, and may God bless you. PS. I was stationed in Texas in the USAF when Kennedy was president.

  73. We are what we are.
    As a child I wanted to farm, I was put off by adults who said one couldn’t make any money at it. So I went the route of college, post grad school, big bucks (all relative), cars, house, clothes, restaurants and debt. The opportunity you mention Dave that allowed us to leave our one million plus populated city and go where we wanted to live we believe was Jesus Christ! My better half and I took the opportunity; never looked back. It was a blessing! We bought 20 acres outside a small northern relatively sparsely-populated-town of about 8,000 people in the mountains. We loved it. We worked and cleared land; put in roads; sunk a well; put in irrigation lines; fenced: pastures, corrals, etc.; planted: orchard, gardens; wheat, hay; built out buildings; put in a small mobile home; bought & bred: milk cows, chickens and horses and worked towards sustainable small farming or homesteading. We learned we are small town people who love this way of life! After about 15 years, we moved; not with the money we had left the city with to begin with in the northern small mountain town, but with no debt, 4 horses, tools, horse-drawn farming equipment, seed, books, 15 years of experience and some greater wisdom of what’s important. And, we guarantee you, it’s not money or things!
    We moved again to a rural sparsely populated State with long, frigid Winters; short, muddy, wet Springs; mild, short summers; gorgeous, breath taking Falls. The whole County is less than 40,000 people and about 3,000 square miles in area. A 60 mile diametered circle would probably net about 10,000 people. The people and area we moved from were great. As said, we loved it. But natural geological elements were making the area dangerously unstable and the ever rising real estate prices, cost of living, taxes, regulations, etc. were too.
    In the Winter of 1998, I believe, we went without power for 10 days in an ice storm. I broke my shoulder sanding our driveway. I had cut some apple trees out of our apple orchard and was drying it for wood carving. We closed off the up stairs. We had an old wood and propane stove my lovely wife made our meals on and provided us with heat. We’d go to bed at night aware that we could freeze before the next day’s warmth. I learned my wife could take care of us if I was injured very well. She learned she can do what she has to do. We were determined as much as God allowed, we were not going to be as dependent on electricity again.
    We couldn’t work out payments on a purchase from the fellow we were renting that large old farm with plentiful water, trees, cleared land, pasture, fencing; big 100+ year old drafty house, privacy and so we left that place and moved about 10 miles away.
    We chose an area more than 10 years ago and bought an over grown small farm at $250/acre. We proceeded to clear a living area of about 5 acres out of about 50 acres. We wanted to leave most for wood lot, building materials, fencing, game and natural surroundings.
    When Y2K was forecasted, we prepped as much as we could and nothing happened. Heard a lot of people in general from various sources laugh at those who were foolish enough to prep? Then 911 happened, we tried prepping again. After it passed, the same laughers were once again heard, but we knew by now not to let it bother us. Now we have the crashing dollar, looming world wide depression on the horizon. Yes, we are prepping. No if by some miracle God allows us to live through this portend and the tongue waggers and jeerers say told you so, it won’t bother us. You see, we are doing what we believe God would have us do. We are living the kind of life we believe God made us to live. Hard work? Yes by the sweat of our brows. But, if we don’t work, we don’t eat! We would rather suffer the march through the desert than go back to Egypt!

    • Excellent post as was Cheryl’s above. Your life sounds ideal to me although to cold for my tastes (after all my autobiography is called “Leaving South Carolina” where I grew up). I too prepared for Y2K and was laughed at by many but I’ve only just begun to finish my last plastic pretzel barrel of major brand spaghetti that I bought for .30 cents a pound in 1999. Over eight pounds will fit in the ones I used.

      Your experiences have prepared you well because this time you will see more than most can believe can ever happen here, but it will. However, the Constitution that allowed us to build this now bankrupt country has long been disregarded and if your health is good you will be thanking God for the long training period he has given you….What I can tell you is that the coming inflation will make food prices at least triple and although the USA will survive, it will never be the same again. My advice, more for others who might read this than for you, is to pray about everything. God is always there but has about had it with our greed and arrogance. Imagine we have been threatening to withhold foreign aid to African nations who don’t agree to our homosexual agenda? To their credit several countries have said they will maintain their morality and no thank you (your taxes at work). God does not wink at 51,000,000 abortions and much of what goes on in the USA today. Ancient pagans would be embarrassed at the lifestyle of some in modern America and although God has warned many of what is coming I can only speak with absolute assurance on what He has said to me. I was told to continue to prepare, buying when on sale, and a few months ago, in the strongest voice I have ever heard, a voice like steel, I heard in my spirit the following words of life: MY HAND OF JUDGEMENT WILL STRETCH FORTH AND ALL WILL FEEL IT, SOME, MUCH MORE THAN OTHERS. FEAR NOT! I was glad to hear the words “Fear not!” because I recalled how when Jesus said that it was not because there was nothing to fear, but He was reminding us that God is still in charge. I believe we have time enough to prepare but not time enough to waste. Little by little you can accomplish much. May God bless you and all who read this.

    • At last someone includes GOD in his post. A large group of Christians pray for one minute, everyday at 9:00 PM (2100 hours) Eastern Standard Time for the survival and perseverance of the nation our Founding Fathers bequeathed to us. Keep HIS Commandments and though you are IN the world, do NOT be OF the world. With HIS blessing, we will survive and thrive. GOD BLESS YOU ALL!

  74. CherylOfTheNorthwoods says:

    I may very well not fit in with this group; I live in Northern Wisconsin “way out there”. I would just like to say a few things. First of all, fear is paralyzing and stops one from doing what they truly need to survive in ANY situation. We all must not let FEAR be our driving motivation for what we do. Secondly, in preparedness there’s a slogan “OPSEC”. It stands for “Operational Security”. It basically means keep your mouth SHUT to others who are not in your group or family, about just what you have for preps and security (guns, ammo, etc) There will be people who will remember that so-and-so said they had lots of food, etc. Desperate people do desperate things and WILL rob or kill you for your supplies. As for unsupportive husbands, wives, significant others when it comes to stockpiling food, etc; Remind them of the skyrocketing food prices and that your stash is insurance against hard times. MOST people can understand that. We buy insurance “just in case”. l live in a VERY rural area and may be considered a redneck, like all my neighbors. We all hunt, grow our own food for the most part, burn wood to heat our homes and cook our meals in many cases, and all are good shots with a variety of firearms. Very few of us has any debt at all. Our water comes from Lake Superior, which so far is safe. But we also have rivers, ponds, and creeks in close proximity. We don’t get together and discuss who has what, but cover each other’s backs at all times. We would immediately recognize an intruder; we know each other well. Many of us are living in our grandparents old places. They lived without running water or electric. Most of us still maintain the handpumps for our wells, wood cook stoves, and all kinds of non-electric infrastructure. If they lived like pioneers, we can as well. It’s all a matter of a total lifestyle of preparedness! Yeah, we drive to jobs daily, but all carry Bug Out Bags in our vehicles. Our lifestyle may save us some day. Look at preparedness as a lifestyle, not a scary thing, or an odd thing. And, be ready at all times to protect what is yours!!!!!

    • Cheryl, you fit in GREAT :) The point of almost all of my writings and trainings is that you need to have a plan to survive in place wherever you spend the majority of your time, no matter where that place is or how good/bad it looks on paper.

      It doesn’t matter whether that place is in a city or cut off from civilization, if you spend the majority of your time there, you need a plan for that place.

    • Cheryl, you are living the life that most of us wish we could! I doubt that you would even notice it much if TSHTF, and that is the goal of every prepper. You have a support group with your community around you. Ideal!

      • CherylOfTheNorthwoods says:

        Thanks, folks. I have a “confession” to make.. the reason I have all the off-grid stuff up and running: When I moved out here in 1988, there was no electric wiring or indoor plumbing and I couldn’t afford to put it in for 2 years!! I lived a total off-grid 1800’s life all that time; when the power was out for the neighbors, life went on like normal for me! I never complained, at least not much, as I kind of enjoyed the gadget-free existence. No TV, Electric anything. Really feeing if you ever do it any length of time. ( I have been TOTALLY alone here most of those years) I STILL enjoy splitting my firewood by hand, deer hunting, gardening, etc, though a bit slower now as I’m in my mid 50’s. But, anyway, my “neighborhood” is about 5 square miles with my closest one being a cousin who is about a mile away. Most of us out here knew each other as kids when we visited our grand parents on the old farms we now call home! The best security we all have is knowing our property like the backs of our hands, where the best surveillance points are, hiding spots if necessary, and a backwoods route to each others homes. Many of us travel by horseback to each other’s places year round. KNOW your neighbors; you don’t have to tell them about your preps. Size them up over time; you MUST know what/whom you will be dealing with! Secondly, know the NEIGHBORHOOD! Mine may be full of bears and wolves, but the potential opposition wouldn’t have a clue how to deal with the surroundings. BIG advantage there. Keep your powder dry!!!

        • CherylOfTheNorthwoods says:

          line 6 above should say “FREEING”, not FEEING, LOL

        • DebCentralOhio says:

          I am so relieved & delighted to find there are many women in their 50’s taking up the cause. I’ve felt like the odd woman out for years now, My husband and I are moving to our carefully thought out ideal location in 6 weeks. We will own it free & clear, and the guys will be there the day after we close to dig the new well. It’s scary & exhilerating to finally put my ideals into motion – I feel like an 1870’s pioneer in St. Louis ready for the westward journey! Good luck to you!

    • You are absolutely right on. You have the kind of pioneering spirit and common sense that every person should have to get through hard times. You have my respect.

  75. Our survival spot, and where we want to live, is a small town in the Ozarks. We have four acres, part of which is in the city limits and part that is not. Because of this, I can raise chickens and could have other animals. We could hunt at the back of the property. Though we have city water, we put in a well and saved up enough to have installed a deep well hand pump. Our static water level is 260′ and I only found one that would work at that depth. I have a wood burning cook stove and two fireplaces in the house. I have fruit trees and berry bushes, a big garden and a greenhouse. I have many books on subjects that would be necessary in a survival situation and tools and equipment for handling things without power. We have a propane powered generator as the first backup, then wood burning to back up the backup. I can everything I can get my hands on. If it weren’t for the fact that we are within a couple of miles of most of my family, I would probably prefer to be completely out of town, but since none of them understand prepping, I want to be nearby to help them.

  76. I am soon to be one of the statistics, we are moving as soon as my son graduates HS this year. The decision is as politicly motivated as anything else. I currently live in IL, and actually grew up here, but can no longer deal with the Chicago thug politicians that think they can run the entire state. The taxes, attacks on constitutional rights etc have become to much for me. We lived in MO for a few years when I got out of the Army and have decided to move back. We have close, like minded friends there that we’ve kept contact with and visit often. We’re looking at the rural areas around Lake of the Ozarks for the best of both worlds as you put it.

    • We too lived in and grew up in IL, the Chicago suburbs to be exact, and decided the corruption and high taxes were reason enough to leave, although we had other motiviations as well. Last year when our youngest graduated from high school, we also picked up our household, but moved to the Appalachian Mountains. We love it here and have gone from a house in the suburbs with one dog to 24 acres with 22 farm animals! We are close enough to a city of 60,000 but out enough to where we don’t have all the restrictions. Low taxes, no mortgage, able to hunt on our property–what a refreshing difference. However, don’t ever expect to move to an area with no corruption. We live in a world of corrupt people, so it is inevitable, but if you can move to where there are more like-minded people, you can finally feel as though you belng–because people like us DO NOT feel at home anywhere near Chicago!! One thing–make sure you get property that has water!!! There is nothing more satisfactory or essential as watching a pure spring come forth from your own land. It will be key in developing a watering system if you plan on having any animals–one that is not dependent on electricity or others. Good luck in your adventures!

  77. Great book called Strategic Relocation. Pretty much covers everything area military targets, water, climate, access and even attitude. Detailed descriptions of desirable areas in each state and some countries. I recommend it for everyone, even those not looking to hunker down.

    Strategic Relocation – North American Guide to Safe Places [Paperback]
    Joel & Skousen, Andrew Skousen (Author)
    4.4 out of 5 stars See all reviews (16 customer reviews) |

    • I agree about this book. A must read for anyone thinking about relocating. My husband and I read it from cover to cover and will be using it as a guide once my youngest graduates high school. We’re in the middle of a HUGE military target and just want to leave asap!

  78. Richard Snook says:

    F ifteen years ago, we made the choice to leave the East Coast and move to the Pacific Northwest – and have never regretted the move. But given social stress and catastrophy, there is probably NO safe place – and it will be up to each of us to make connections and encourage community safety. Seeking seclusion may make sence in the short term, but in the long run, a community (of whatever size) needs to come together for its own support. I believe mid-sized communities here in the Northwest are more likely to foster that inner connection. In an environmental disaster, I have the Oregon Cascades to head for; but for other social disasters, I plan to stay put. The one freedom we have at present, is not being burdoned with home ownership any more – we are financially and emotionally free to run wherever we need to go. And that is a good feeling.

    • I like what you said. I think we “may” need to bug out in the beginning, but ultimately it’s going to take a community to re-establish order. I believe the economy is going to catapult us into life as we’ve never known it for a while. I don’t think it will be the end of the world, but life as we’ve known it -for a time. I just want to be in a neighborhood where values are the same such as hard work, teaching, helping, etc. otherwise one would find themselves at a great disadvantage and not in the safest position. I think a preppers society would be optimal, but I don’t know how realistic it is that I’d find one.

  79. Ann Wilson Kingsley says:

    I live at the edge of the best part of town, population of 30,000 people in NM right next to Texas. I consider this a very safe place, since my family are operating farms just across in Texas. Farmers tend to be well-prepared, since they cannot call the serviceman every time something goes wrong. Although I am well-prepared in most respects, I still have a little prepping to do, but have a 72-hour pack from living in Dallas, and lots of canned goods, water, and wasp spray. I still need to find out more about barter goods and some of the refinements of prepping, as well as establishing my heat source. This summer I will help my sister grow her vegetable garden in exchange for lots of veggies to can and freeze. The shopping here is excellent for a smaller town, and we are not in a high-risk area for “direct” nuclear attack – about 100 miles from that threat. We do have a Special Forces training base here, which seems to me would make the area much safer. Although those guys are tough they are also smart, so I look on this as a plus for my Safe Area. I think people will think twice before getting too out-of-hand.

  80. I AM A U.S.M.C. SCOUT. I HAVE WORKED FOR TWO STATE AGENCIES,AS TROOPERS AND HIGHWAY PATROL. I AM 60 y.o.a. But I still shoot @least twice a week at my home pistol range. I have always shot combat master with handguns. I built several AR-15s with different targeting systems. I am still good out to 300 meters with my Rem 700. We live in the center of a 30 acre parcel, 3 miles from a small town. I kept a low profile and sourced a lot of ammo,extra weapons,provisions, and silver ounce coins,gold buffalo coins. Having lived “hard” for two years in Vietnam, I wonder if we have the stamina to step over dead bodies and see the bad side of civil unrest. The first time you terminate someone,your life changes.

  81. it’s good to hear the differant idea’s and opinion’s about safe places.
    thanks.
    dog

  82. Born in Texas raised in Texas and with any luck will die in Texas . When I die, If I can’t go to Heaven then let me go to Texas. For that as close as it gets

  83. jacque jackson says:

    we bought 2 1/2 acres in Alta/Dutch Flat area of northern Ca. 20 minitues to a small town, 1 hour down to Sacramento, 1 hour up to reno, NV.

    Great well on property, almost have it paid for. still decieding what to build. off grid most likely. 2 sides BLM land, other 2 sides have a cabins. lots of mountain folks, guns and hunting is a way of life there. 3/4 mile off the paved road through easement dirt road in, deers, mountain lions, bears, snowmobile in and out a few weeks of the winter.

    until we get up there our supplies for emergencies are at our place in the bay area. when we start building, we will lay in supplies up there also and consolodate when we make it permenent. many more decisions to make! jacque

  84. David, I’ve been appreciating your writings long before it became so popular – Now, I see “Coeur d’Alene, ID” listed as one of the areas above! As a Certified Master Home Inspector who has lived “alternatively” for 20 years, I would encourage folks to look at some of the deals slightly to the North. Bonner County is far more flexible in land use restrictions than Kootenai, and properties are way cheaper. Micro-climates abound, so it’s handy to know the warmer / colder areas. Watch bank-owned deals as they crop up. Also, there are folks in place already who can assist newcomers in their search for livestock and feed sources. I’ve always been happy to facilitate that type of networking.

  85. I think in Oklahoma the smaller counties with less population will be more likely to have a sheriff that will look out for you. Or you will be able to run for sheriff. With a good sheriff things will be easier to do. You might even be able to be deputized and have more freedom form oppression.

  86. Where to go and what are the criteria? For those who cannot relocate for whatever reason, well, there you are. So this is for those who are looking for a good place to relocate with SHTF scenarios in mind.
    1) Nuclear attack/fallout. The cold war taught many of us to consider full, all-out war. Today, a more likely scenario is terrorist attacks, so think “dirty bombs”, the contamination of radioactive material, fallout, and so on. Where do terrorists seem to like the most? NYC. Who is down-wind? Long Island, Philadelphia, Boston, Connecticut, Rhode Island. Who else is a fav target? Washington DC. Basically, the entire NE is toast if terrorists have their way. It only takes one. Get the heck out of the NE.
    2) The western states. Many of the western states have severe water shortage problems. Potable water is absolutely critical for life. Unless you are lucky enough to have one of those rare streams on your property, you MUST consider if the local infrastructure is based on artificially supplied water. If you are attempting to PREPARE – the availability of water in the face of broken infrastructure must be one of your first considerations in narrowing down the choices. Don’t locate in a lush Arizona area that has beautiful green golf courses only because it is quickly depleting what remains of an almost extinct ancient aquifer.
    Well, I could go on, but you get the idea. Start knocking out areas this way and it helps in pointing toward a viable location.

  87. TOM BROLLINI says:

    MEL TAPPIN, LOL his book has been out of print for decades. I don’t think many people now will know his book, or him.

    I have talked to him, early 70s I think, my uncle illistrated his book & gave it to me to read & critique since I was a old country boy Marine, farm boy, cowboy, shooter of just about everything & had survival training.

    It’s hard to remember the book from all those years ago, but his recommendation on the “area” to live is OK, depending on your abilities & skill set.

    Unfortunately I can remember that there were a number of things that I felt were not correct or very useful in true survival situations.

    One of the problems with Mel was that he was in fact crippled & in a wheel chair & he wrote a lot of his stuff without first hand experience, using others thoughts & ideas.

    Still most of his stuff was good & if you can get the book it’s worth the read.

    I’m getting old now & have a shelf full of meds so I have to adjust for that. I have a small farm, 44ac on a decent river, with 5 kinds of fish, enough flow for a good hydro electric set up, enough sun & wind for solar or wind & totally hidden from the road with a mile long drive with the house in deep woods.

    Close enought to medical & food to be practicable & some neighbors who are hunters, shooters & have largish farms.

    If I was still a younger man, I would live in the mountains of Oregon, Idaho etc or Alaska. Having lived & hunted & fished in all of them, if you had a nice stout cabin, hidden in the woods with water, good hunting & fishing & open areas for planting, that would be perfect for me.

    For what it’s worth I know people that live “remote”, as we called it in Alaska & they could be truly self sufficient.

    I just don’t know how to get all my tools, guns, reloading equipment etc. out there. Plus the truckload of meds i would need to take. lol

  88. Hi all great info. I recently got a job in northeastern Arizona and have been here for two months now, we love it here! We were able to find a one acre lot with a well, it met all of our requirements, a place for a garden, it has a work shop and a place for my wifes horse. I had been looking for about the last year and I was trying to find a place with hunting and fishing close by and somewhat rural. The place we have is on a gravel road with one way in and only five neighbors, this does have it’s pros and cons but my wife and I really love it. This has become our “retreat”. We are only one mile from town but yet it feels like we are 10-15 miles out. We left the wonderful Mojave desert, just a stones throw from Death Valley to come here. I was very worried about providing some sort of sustainability for my family there. So getting this job was a gift from heaven. Thanks David for the great info and to everyone else as well.

    Shawn

  89. I’m a married 72 year old that lives in Austin, TX. Trust me mariowen, stay away from this city.
    Even though I have like-minded friends, I often feel I am the only conservative on earth. Austin is the most liberal community in the State.

    Having said that, here is my problem; I am probably considered a prepper by most of my friends and neighbors but, my wife shares none of my concerns. Her attitude is when “they” come, she will just go outside and let them shoot her. This terrifies me. We are both practicing, believing Christians and I adore my wife of 46 years.

    I have several weapons, was with the UDT in the Navy and, have pretty good knowledge of self preservation but, I don’t know what to do about my wife. Any suggestions?

    • I suspect your wife is probably just talking. If/when “they” come she will probably wrench your weapon out of your hand and pick off more then you! Such is the survival instinct and when real danger arrives and fear sets and is replaced with anger she will do what it takes to keep going just one more day. Maybe you can talk her into going target practicing a few times. If she thinks she does good (maybe you could let her outshoot you- my husband does that for me and I pretend not to notice) it will be more fun for her and she will be more willing to do it again. One thing leads to another. Then you could ask her advice about food storage or something similar and keep building it up until she is involved and never even saw it coming until it was too late. That’s how I got my husband hooked. heh heh heh I started by asking him about different types of guns, a subject he is infinitely more knowledgeable about then me. Then I bought him a real neat one for his birthday and he started taking me target practicing. Once he had been bribed into taking that first step he was much more willing to participate in other things like getting an emergency generator hooked up. I like to sew and have been collecting cloth for making quilts and things that will be useful. The sewing machine I had was the cheapest one known to mankind. He found me a really nice one second hand (but still in the box) and gave it to me for Christmas. He is helping now and having fun doing it. He still is not as into it as me and does not talk about it much but that’s the way he is. But at least now he does contribute some and does not thwart my efforts. By making it fun and using just a little trickery you just might get your wife to join in. Good luck.

    • belladonna says:

      just love her and tell her.there will be a spot for her when she needs it. my other half is the same .he seems to have a problem with preperation of any kind. but loves firearms so he is making a contribution without knowing it. Tough for a female prepper in a family of males who are not into the end of days (sons and husband) are tough rugged hard working men and i will add hard headed. but there not stupid. when the time comes thell be on board..funny but have always lived partilly off gride. boat and fishing people and my husband has always wantted to move far up the river and get away from people . see god works al kinds of things out for you when you just trust him .

    • Pray that He changes her mind on that. God can give her a new mind on that if it is in His will. Make sure your prayers are reaching Him though (no unforgiviness,…)

    • Hi,
      As a Christian it is our responsibility to live God’s plan through us to its fullest. We may not have a plan for our lives but God does! She may want to think about that decision and consider what her testimony may be for others not so fortunate as she is to have a loving husband and many blessings to boot. Be selfless. Stay sharp and live long.

    • Actually, I am extremely close to Austin! It is one of the hotbeds of liberalism in the state. If you get out of that city and out of the inner cities of Houston and Dallas/Fort Worth and somewhat in San Antonio, and you find good decent people. I have a husband who isn’t a hard core prepper, but thankfully he doesn’t block me. He will be happy when he gets a dinner after everything breaks loose.
      I hope your wife can find a female prepper friend that might convince her that her life is much more valuable than taking a bullet. I, too, am a Christian who thinks that God has given me the intelligence to open my eyes and see that we may be the “Josephs” of today.

  90. I have a little place in the pinney woods of east texas. Reminds me of Oregon where I grew up. Just the wife and I. Good game,Lake near Lots of woods ( with Traps,human & animal )
    Rain barrels Generator Small garden, Fruit Tree &nut trees We picked propane to power the Generator, Hope we don’t regret that one. Yall come to Texas It,s cheap to live here
    God bless stormydave

    • We live in East Texas also. I love it. My husband also grew up in southern Oregon, he has alot of trouble with the heat here though.

  91. CaptMikeO5 says:

    Think population density, lower is better, look at a photo of the US… at night…less light, fewer people, the inter-mountain West 1st choice.

  92. My husband & I have been actively trying to purchase a home further from the Metropolitan area the last three months. We have bid on three, missed out on bidding on two won a hud home bid. I brought an architect, my father, through the property to point out the repairs and potential costs before paying for an inspector and decided to walk away. We currently live in a condo in a suburb only 20 minutes from the Metropolitan area. We are looking for enough room to store our food, medical and defense supplies as well as room for family members and possibly a few friends . I would prefer to find property with its own well, room for a garden, the potential for a wood burning stove, 500 gallon gas tank/shed, and still remain close to an hours drive to my current job. It would be nice to have defendable boundries around the outside of the property and an area to install solar panels.

    We have also been looking at properties in small towns as well. I never expected this process to be filled with such emotional ups and downs. We have found a workable property five times and two/three we really loved, once to be out bid, once two days too late to bid and once the property was sold as we looked at it. This Our other stipulations include being closer to my father age 81. He has a hobby farm an hour from the metro area and still runs his own firm from that location. He is healthly thank God! We would prefer to pay cash or pay off the property in a maximum of two years hoping my job will last that long. Each week it feels like we are running out of time and opportunities. We are still looking and will continue until we have either found a new location or TSHTF. In the latter case we will move as many supplies as possible to my fathers hobby farm and set up a defendable perminitor and plant our heirloom garden there.

  93. brotherbill says:

    Sorry….my phone whacked out in the middle of my message….technology……ain’t it great….. Anyway, wherever I go I know that my Lord and savior will supply all my needs……just as he did for the isrealites in the wilderness….. The sparrow worries not….how much more does Christ love his child…..

    • CherylOfTheNorthwoods says:

      But, don’t forget the story of the 7 fat cows and 7 lean cows.. it’s a story of how being prepared saved an entire civilization!! Prepare prepare prepare!!! Don’t sit back and wait for the Manna in the grass. We aren’t in those situations any more. You MUST do SOMETHING to help yourself and family. I’m a born again Christian too, and wholly trust God, but I also have common sense..and acreage, gardening and shooting skills, 3 sources of water, food storage, and all non-electric means of sustaining myself for many years to come!!

  94. Well, for all of those waiting for God to rapture them out, you may want to read the Bible instead of listening to the lies coming from the pulpits. Christians will live through the Tribulation. Arming ourselves with knowledge and survival skills is the best way to survive any situation. We must be able to make good decisions, survive very tough situations, remain faithful, and look for the Manna God will supply.

    I plan to stay where I am. I am near a small town West of Atlanta. There are subdivisions everywhere, but I’m in an older house with a well and a good garden spot. I have a block building, a basement, several sheds, and I’m within 5 miles of the nearest town. I will certainly have to fight to defend my property and supplies if all hell breaks loose. I am ready for that too. Unfortunately, I can’t afford to move. If I could I would probably move further from Atlanta. I’m only 30 miles out, so people could walk that far.

    I think most people are stuck where they are. I recommend moving to the country where you could live off-the-grid if necessary. If you have never living that way, you probably won’t make it unless you have help. Luckily, I grew up in the country. I’ve lived off-the-grid before. I know what it takes to grow a garden and raise animals. More importantly though is the mental preparation.

    I tried to connect with other preppers to no avail. Does anyone have a website or something where people in the Atlanta area can connect?

  95. Thanks for the opportunity to share info with like-minded people – great idea! Husband & I are retired and living outside a small town in MT. Built our retirement home here 3 yrs ago. Designed it with a good sized pantry and commercial sized freezer & frig so trips to the store would be less frequent, since its a 20 min. run into town on a dirt road. We set up a room for stockpiling food and frequent the Costco store an hour away for supplies. Growing season isn’t too good, but we’ve tried…I signed up for a Master Gardeners course to become more educated…would like to get a greenhouse for all year round growing. Have a comfortable amt. of guns and ammo – have a logging truck delivering a full load of logs so we’ll be able to cut and split at our leisure…great fireplace heats house well…have a 1000 gl. underground propane tank, which is used for stove, dryer, and outdoor BBQ. Luckily we have an elec co-op so our electricity is half what others are paying. Have a good well…and house is wired for generator…will be buying a 10,000 w generator next month. National Forest is 2 miles up a dirt road and big lake is right down the road.

    Problem is, we overspent when building, so our plans are to sell, if possible in this economy, and find a cabin in Wyoming (no State income tax and more conservative than MT) and then explore the possibility of also a small place somewhere like Panama, Chile, Ecuador, Belize, or Costa Rica..Trying to research politics and gun laws for those areas..International living magazines don’t seem to cover these topics. So that is where we are at this stage….have not had much success meeting folks who feel like we do, as far as prepping and being tired of the “politically correct” scene…maybe better luck in western Wyoming.

  96. I’m with JB. We are looking next door in Gilmer county GA. A couple acres in or near the woods with a good garden spot and water on the property. A good size lake nearby. A small community with strong faith community. We still are dependent on jobs near ATL so have to straddle preparedness and current reality.

  97. Hey guys : )
    I’ve been stearing my immediate family (Kaz and our 2 kids) for about 7 years now, we purchased 120 acres in the south west of Western Australia, I converted a shed into a living space, log cabin style. All our savings go into silver and off grid stuff, next acquisition is a milti band radio and antenna. Last one was a solar fridge set up.
    We have 50,000 gallons of rain water and a massive dam, the first on the head of a stream, which catches water from the forest at our back, the forest has wild game, pigs, deer and stray cattle.
    It’s an area which exports a huge amount of food, way more than the locals could consume. The area is mainly beef, dairy and stone fruit, apples and pairs. It’s also a respected wine and boutique/cottage preserve and top end consumables producer. There are many small growers who produce melons, squash, potatoes, tomatos among others.
    Preping in Australia is pretty much non-existant, probably where the US was 20 years back althoigh with the cold war you guys probably started where we are, not yet. Since starting on this adventure I have met one other couple who are doing the same I wish there were more of “us” down here.
    We have a small dozer, a diesel & a pertol 4wd, other portable items- generator etc, a 40′ sea container full of hardware items, tools and materials. We don’t trim the weeds and there is no cultivated “garden”, all the plants we tend are food producing and have been chosen to provide variety from the local produce.
    Climate is mild, rarely below 10c in winter during the day, it can be a bit warm in summer, most days over 30c, we get around 900 to 1000mm rain each wet season which is extended over about 7 months generally starting around Easter with summer showers.
    Our place is 35km out of a 95,000 pop. city, Bunbury. The closest town, 15km away, has about 600 people, great little spot, the kids go to the primary school and my wife is the librarian/cleaner.
    We moved down here 3 years ago and haven’t looked back (well maybe a couple of times. With a shudder : ), I’m on the local volinteer fire brigade and work in construction, scaffolding, in a 100km radius we would have 3 bauxite mines, a gold mine, 4 mineral sand outfits a silicon plant (really nothing to brag about once you see how they make silicon) and a few other specialist chemical and gas plants and the industry which supports it all.
    Just as an aside, I was reading PrisonPlanet yesterday and looking at an article where the chap was talking about proximity to a neuclear reactor and possible post grid ramifications so out of curiosity I went to the atomic commisions web site and found out – there are about 30 reactors in the southern hemisphere and 15 planned compaired to around 400 in the northern hemisphere and more than 45 planned. The atmosphere of each hemisphere never mix or the percentage is so low it’s may as well be zero.
    The South West is a big place. You are all welcome.
    Cal

  98. Occasionally I feel like the “odd person out”. However after reading these posts I am encouraged. I am especially impressed with the Texas mentality. If it were just me I would move to Texas tomorrow. Just a side note: There should be a symbol assigned to the movement so that we can recognize each other.

  99. “Not many people want to go north. We will hunker down at home …and pray that ROL will be maintained and no confiscation of food, supplies, ammo, etc.. Back to victory gardens or in this …..”
    Other than winter, for which we are prepared, the interior of BC is about ideal. Please do not check it out. ;)…Ken

  100. Some great ideas and suggestions for things to consider. I live in south Fla and feel a need to “get above the waves” as well as away from so many “dependents”. Have ties to north Ga (nice to see the Fannin reference) so maybe there. Have also looked at the Free State Project in NH. Already fiercely independent and small enough for a reasonable migration to have a very significant effect. The proximity to Canada seems appealing but the proximity to NY and Boston seem precarious, either from direct targeting or needy evacuees. Some expat arrangements have also caught my eye. Some places in Central/south America are both convenient and supportive. Several already have expat communities, both USA and otherwise. Now for that second passport….

  101. Dave’s answer is the best. It depends. But i don’t know who would want to go anywhere else besides the U.S.? The Philipines will be Islamist states in a few years, if a tsunami doesn’t take them out first. And Bulgaria has a good chance of becoming a Russian ‘milking’ satelite country again if a world war or global catastrophic epidemic hits.
    The advantage is if your source of income doesn’t require you to be limited in your choice of locations. Upper midwest is the all around best for all contingencies. You want to be at least a thousand miles from Yellowstone if that’s something you worry about. With Wisconsin now having concealed carry on top of open carry and soon the right to use deadly force to defend your ‘castle’, the central upper rural parts of that state with all its other survival advantages is about the best location for bang for the buck. Lots of nice likeminded people but plenty of privacy and post-apoclyptic resources if you know the right areas. I just set up there and after years of traveling everywhere else, it can’t be beat. Anyone wants any more info, let me know. vzestand3@frontier.com, Be glad to point you in the right direction.
    Peace and Blessings

  102. We have been wrestling with this question for years. We have a few acres in the middle of the woods on a dirt road that is mostly inaccessible during the snow or mud seasons and we don’t get much traffic up there and everyone around us are relatives. But that is in Maine and we are currently living in Nebraska so getting to Maine after the SHTF and trying to navigate through some of the most densely populated areas of the country is not a welcome thought. We also have family and land in upstate NH just a stones throw from the CA border; but again population getting there is very high and in a true SHTF scenario it would be iffy at best.

    We are currently looking for about 10-20+ acres in the northern UT, southern ID, or Western MT/WY areas. UT has very quickly priced its way out of our league as most house lots are now being sold for the cost of house and acerage in other states. I suspect alot of that has been because of the high influx of migrating Californites that are fleeing the mess they created in CA and moving east to escape the failed experiment.

    My criteria for the property is that it must have ground water either in an artesian well, spring, stream, etc. I’m fine with putting in sceptic systems and have used them most of my life and don’t mind the occasional need for maintenance, which if done correctly is very seldom. Must be out of any town proper but prefer to be within 45-60 minutes of a small to medium sized population (meaning a few hundred to no more than 40,000). The larger of the small sized communities will provide all the necessities (food/building supplies, etc) but still be far enough away and sparse enough not to draw attention to those looking to feed off the masses. Which brings me to my next requirement, as I have heard others mention, not being directly accessible to any main commercial artery. I classify that to include rail lines, navigable water ways (larger than a canoe), highways, or county through roads. In general dirt/gravel roads, with more than 2-3 turns/branches before gaining access to the property and have the property not visible from the road.

    In my search I have found a handfull of properties that meet all the requirements and some have had houses, barnes, and workshops aready on the property and for very decent prices. As soon as I get a few things settled financially (6-10 months) we will be buying and splitting our time between there and our current home in NE with plans to finalize the entire move within 5 years and be there permanently.

    For those that push the position of “the rapture” and you don’t have to worry about it because you won’t be here – good luck with with that because WTSHTF does not necessarily mean that it is the rapture. Alot can happen before then that will make things hell for all of us before that great and dreadful day. I DO count myself as a good God fearing man and rely on him and his word but my family and my brother are my responsibility until that day comes and I will keep my covenent with the Lord and keep my house in order.

  103. I have been prepping in place for about 5 years now. Just in the last 2 we made a decision to establish a retreat in the mountains of VA. I fly for my profession so I wanted to be fairly close to a decent size airport. We found an 8 acre tract in the middle of 3,200 acres of national parkland. We have a producing well, a small pond, area for a garden, small area for livestock and a few friends who are close enough to walk to but far enough away to where we feel we’re on our own. We’ve built an earth sheltered house that is super insulated with several redundant sources of heat including geothermal, radiant flooring supplied by plex tubing we installed immediately under the metal roof, and fireplace. We have a wonderful place to live regardless that is capable of hard survival if necessary. We are in the process of adding a low rpm generator, pv panels and backup batteries. We’re also installing a rainwater catchment system and planning to install a water cistern for our drinking water that is pumped from a well with a solar powered pump just in case the spring was to dry up. We’ve stockpiled food, meds, firearms, tools and have even started trying to establish alternative skills/career just in case. Even with all of that, we are currently searching for a cache to bury a second and possibly even a 3rd location of refuge just if we needed it. It’s alot of work and money. The kids think I’m crazy but the wife has recently been seeing things happen that I’ve been warning her about for years so now she’s on full-bore. What a blessing that it. Pushing rope is no fun. We’re stocking for the kids and their mates as well. I hope we never have to use any of this stuff, hence my reason for picking a place where I’ll enjoy living regardless, but if the SHTF, we are as prepared as we can be with a couple back up plans. I have no illusions that refugees won’t flock to the mountains and the national forests but you can only do what you can do so I feel safer here than there!

  104. Suggestion to “Govtrumbull” for “what it is worth”. The 12 ga. is good, however in many cases #4 Buck is much bettet that OO Buck at 25 or so yards (from experience) and a first round of PDX is a good vehicle and man stopper, buth have found OO buck spreads too much at distances. Slugs tend to really drop, but with practice at 100 feet + you soon become proficent. Suggest a semi .22 auto rifle like a Ruger 10 22 with a 4X stope and
    several mags. Also Cabelas has .22, HP, segmented rounds(breaks into 3 projectiles) when fired. Also for revovers or semi auto pistols in .22, there is Aguila SSSniper with a .60 gr. slug that has very good stopping power out to + 50, 60 yds. Very effective on javilina, racoons or even larger animals as long as you do not head shoot, where there is a lot of bone. WARNING do no use the Aguila SSSniper in a rifle as it is not recommended. By the way .22 is considered a mouse ammo in some thinking, but there have been more deaths from .22’s than most any other cal. in this country. Remember how near death Pres. Regan
    became after one round from a NUT, and if the SS driver hadn’t reached the hospital it would have probably killed him. .22 ammo is low cost and you can carry a lot more rounds too in a survival situation. .45 , .40, or .10 mm is very good and Marlin I believe made a .45 cal. carbine that would take normal colt 45 magazines or even a 10 round mag to compliment the .45 you carry. As a senior also, medical problems are a major part of out life and with the present Health Care coming into play that if you are 70 or more, you may find that it is DRASTICALLY against seniors getting any serious life threatning care! STAY SAFE!

  105. S.Bryant Adkins says:

    Depending on the type of disaster. Its difficult to say.

    A few yrs ago. About 2 weeks after Katrina hit New Orleans. WE had hurricane Rita come near Houston.

    Lucky for me I did not end up in that highway of hell (I-45 North to Dallas)

    The wife and I kept putting off waiting on the freeway to clear up. In addition I got to know a couple neighbors and we agreed to pool resources and ride the storm out at home.

    No thanks to the weather service but the storm veered more easterly and missed us.

    This turned into a real learning experience about dealing with hurricanes.

    You hunker down for wind..Flee from water…Wind was our threat from our location.

    But if you do need to flee. I would suggest a refuge you can reach with only 3/4 tank of gas or less.Or carry some full gerry cans.
    You may not find gas available or power to pump it.

  106. all are great commenst and it proves to be true: You do the best you can with the means and skills at hand. We were fortunate to be able to move to a western State with the Rockies which is great but altitude has it’s problems with growing seasons and keeping small animals warm, healthy and secure. Deep ells and electric pumps are a negative but can be overcome eventually. Infrastructire is good, access is not reaily available and can be blocked, folks around are hardy and can do with what they have making for lots of handy folks. We are OK with this place and content – more work to be done but with sensibility since there is no ultimate security for anyone. Trust in God, be helpful / supportive to the neigbors, save some money, get some silver and gold if possible, stockup on some food, collect heirloom seeds, buy hand tools, hardware, metal fencing and barb wire, etc. Not to mention some shooting sticks and handguns with ammo. And for these items: One must handle careful, learn the skills and practice, practice, practice. Ammo is expensive and in a survival situation every bullet has to be successful.
    Sounds like Jade has found the best place mentioned so far. Maybe NW? If it only would not rain so much – done that and could not handle the weather.

  107. I vote for Colorado. We have lived here for twenty years. Denver is about sixty miles away and Colorado Springs is a city of about 500,000 and we live nearby at about 7500 feet above sea level on three acres. My belief is that social unrest would be minimal here compared to larger cities, such as Los Angeles, New York, Atlanta, etc. The drawback is that the growing season is short because of the long winter so growing food in your own garden is difficult (without a green house). We also own a very remote house twenty miles away from a very small town and it could be used as a last resort/retreat. It is remote enough so that there are very few burglaries or other crimes committed and rarely are strangers seen because it is so remote. To get there, one has to drive at least ten miles down a dirt road running trough cattle country. And in the winter 4 x 4’s are needed.

    The nearest hospital is about forty miles away. Because our government seems to have an answer for every situation, if food became scarce they would probably open food banks and distribute food in more heavily populated areas. It would be in their own interest to do so, and they would probably do it. We are not worried, we can survive in any situation, including armed insurrection and eating sparingly. The early settlers survived on corn only (unless the story is a myth) supplied by the Indians.

    We plan to stay in place unless circumstances prevent us from doing so.

  108. Bill Gates bought a ranch near Cody, WY so we can assume that’s among the safe spots. Water purification is mandatory.

  109. 77705256
    The perfect place to live? maybe Tahiti, Bak Hwa, oh, who am I kidding. My wife is not into a retreat of any kind unless it is the Hawaiian Islands. Our hunting shack is too far to walk and it would be over a tank of gas, also it is not stocked with anything except water and log furniture. My children and GK’s will probably try for Canada or somewhere north of the twin cities. Not many people want to go north. We will hunker down at home and pray that ROL will be maintained and no confiscation of food, supplies, ammo, etc.. Back to victory gardens or in this case survival of those best fed and protected gardens. Getting too old to put up with any BS and our city seems fairly organized to cope with any immediate threat situation. It is the long term that worries me and not having sufficient supply of everything. In which case barter is probably best to obtain needs not wants. God Bless and much luck to all, especially those that fail to prepare!

  110. Philip Anthony Dick says:

    I would prefer to live somewhere that there is an abundance of wildlife and fresh water.Somerwhere that I wound’t have to shoot too many entitlement people. Body’s are heavy and can readily contaminate the area you are at. However, who among us can just uproot and relocate. Almost all of us need to stay at our jobs until the end. That said, I still subscribe to your philosophy that the best place to be is right where you are now. My permanent retreat is here.

    • Texas is the place for you. I have had as many as 50+ deer in my yard, waiting for a handout – and I live in a subdivision in hill country. Deer, javelina, wild animals in so many places, lakes are abundant, you can choose a variety of geography from hills to mountains to plains to woods we have them all. We also have a lot of super cool people here that make it even better. Of course, there are the losers as there are everywhere, but we just have to build up more “goods” than “bads”. Come on down, ya’ll.

  111. To all of the above, come to Texas we can use the backup.

  112. Sue the Frugal Survivalist says:

    My brother and I had exactly this discusiion about relocation to a safer area in anticipation of a worst case scenario. My brother and I are both retired and he bought a home in the foothills of northern California. I live in Sacramento on 0.22 of an acre. He lives on five acres. Our home is paid for , and (as long as we have tap water) we are able to supply all our fruits and vegetables from our back yard. We have a great hospital within walking distance. All our firewood comes free from neighbors who dump tree trimmings in the street. Our cost of living in retirement is so low that we can save 50% of our income. While I believe it is prudent to prepare by stockpiling food and supplies in case a disaster happens, it would be foolish for us to trade a very secure retirement for a mortgage on a property far from the nearest hospital. Experience has taught me that the feared disaster may not come, but the emergency trip to the hospital almost certainly will.

  113. There will be no real safe place to live, but God is in control and we are not to fear any of this. We are to do our best to prepare and rely on him to do the rest. As we go along
    we all need to keep our focus on him.

    But as you are preparing………
    Check out State College PA in Central Pennsylvania it is rated one of the safest Places to live. The rankings, compiled by experts took into consideration crime statistics, extreme weather, risk of natural disasters, housing depreciation, foreclosures, air quality, terrorist threats, environmental hazards, life expectancy, mortality rates from cancer and motor vehicle accidents, and job loss numbers in 379 US municipalities. Ultimately I will end up here.

    This is my plan to take care of my elderly parents and my family that live in two
    Different states.
    I own a house in Northern Virginia. I don’t want to be living in this area for the main reason of being to close to Washington DC. But I have no choice because my husband’s job is located here and he is just a few years from retirement. My husband is not totally on board with the survival thing. So I am doing this on my own although he is very aware of what I’m doing. What I am doing is prepping my home here in VA to survive in place, but I am also prepping my mothers home in Central Pennsylvania where she owns a house and land in a small community of about 20 to 25 other homes and close to a 40k town/hospital/airport./interstate. My mother also owns a cabin not even three miles down the road from where she lives. It’s sound crazy but if you drive down this road you are in what feels like the middle of nowhere on the side of a mountain. Very very few people know it’s there. The cabin has no electricity, running water or Indoor plumbing. However it is completely ready to survive in. We have a well with a pump, a stove and refrigerator that operates with propane, a cook stove and a fireplace for heat, a two-seater outhouse in case you want company. (I never understood why some outhouses have two seats) eight double beds in the upstairs loft. and it has a stone quarry a stones throw away ( no pun intended). My parents spent more time living in this cabin than they did their home with all the amenities; so like I said
    it is completely ready for survival if it comes down to this. Another cool thing
    about this area is that I have met other preppers that a located with miles of where
    my mother lives. One prepper has enough food to feed her whole neighborhood.
    So if and when the shit hits the fan I will be ready if happens here in Va . I always keep full tank of gas and when the time is right I will take my family drive to PA to be with my elderly people and the other preppers . And if things get really bad I will move everyone to the cabin and hide out.

    • Nancy, I will be here to welcome you when you arrive. I live within 5 min. of State College. I have tried to find a group of like minded folks , but have been unable to. Now that I know there are others in my area, I have hope. Thank you and God bless you and yours. Lindalee

  114. Hollywood and the television media have provided us with a number of movies, etc., about the possibilities of what’s coming, both man made and natural. By the time an event happens, if you are not where you want to be, you probably aren’t going to be able to get there and you will have to shelter in place. Man made disasters, short of nuclear annihilation, biological or chemical warfare will be geographically limited so it is a question of being in the right place at the right time, or not. Natural disasters on the other hand could be limited to earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, storms, etc., or they could be worldwide. A pole-shift could be such a worldwide event. In this case there may be few places on the planet where humans could survive such an event. If you factor in every volcano on the planet will erupt, every earthquake fault will move with 10, 11, 12 or bigger earthquakes, winds of 400 mile per hour plus, speeds, walls of water 1,000’s of feet high going around the world numerous times, it should be obvious that few places on earth will be unaffected. Natural conditions today, for those that follow them, are demonstrating how few places on earth are not being affected by some type of natural occurrence. I myself, live in Fannin County, GA, USA. This area was selected after careful investigation of many sites in the USA and around the world. It is a community of 20,000 people, located 100 miles north of Atlanta, GA. It is surrounded by mountains in every direction with the highest point in GA being about 25 miles away as the crow flies. It is a rural area with livestock and poultry operations. It has Lake Blue Ridge which is stocked with fish and plenty of fresh water. Most people are familiar with the old ways and can survive without the modern conveniences. There is ample farming land and a surplus of water. It stays mainly south of the jetstream so anything coming from the west by wind is blown elsewhere. It is outside the large earthquake faultlines and there are no known volcanoes in this area. The mountains will protect from wind and water. Flat elevation is above 1,800 feet above sea level. Power gebnneration is by TVA dams and there are no nuclear reactors within 50 miles and they are downwind from here.There are already survivalists living in the area and a community of like minded souls is possible.
    (email removed for spam prevention purposes)

    • captain mike says:

      Sounds cool Jon. Northern Georgia is a best-kept secret. Not terribly picuresque by some standards, but still very nice at the right times. And very livable – water, wood, wildlife, and mild climate. My bro-in-law has a place near you and it is our family bug-out spot if it ever comes to that. Keep the faith.

  115. My wife and I moved to a state which has a history of mining, with many towns high in the mountains and very isolated. The majority of these old mining towns are for the most part ghost towns, but some still have residents – old timers.

    We presently live in a small town of less than 8000 population, very friendly people, but for the most part very liberal.

    We are both in our early 70’s and we are in the habit of walking nearly every day around town and we attend some of the local school functions which our grand daughter participates in – so we are very visible to the locals.

    However, just over over the pass, 24 miles away is a large city.

    We have spent many of our summer weekends visiting ghost towns to take pictures and imagine how the people who lived there back when.

    I have decided that when the SHTF, a fast exit to one of these ghost towns would be good for a short stay.

    There is one ghost town which really has my attention, so as soon as we can we are going back.

    The town is about 15 miles outside of a major city but high in the mountains on a dirt road. The town itself is on the side of a mountain in the trees, only one entrance to it from the road.

    Just before the town is an active gold mine with guards and a fence. Some may say this is bad, But I believe that mine will be well protected if any future problems arise.

    I parked in the middle of town while my wife wandered around taking pictures, about 30 minutes. One of the houses I was parked near was occupied and the old timer eventually came, apparently to run an errand, but took the time to wave a hello before getting into his beat up 4-wheel drive.

    When my wife finally returned to the truck and we started off, up the street coming toward us was a man and his dog with a rifle slung over his shoulder. When I drew along side, my window was down, I waved and said hi, he waved back and said hi.

    If the water supply to that town is gravity fed from a spring up the hill and we can find a vacant lot to rent – we may set up a refuge.

    • John Whittington says:

      I’ve heard that old mining areas can have rats and poisonous snakes. I’ve always thought of getting rat snakes (what we call black snakes) to eat the rats and chase off the poisonous snakes!

  116. I have been giving a lot of thought to this dilemma lately because I believe that there is a major storm just over the horizon. For years, I have been setting some plans into motion to prep for this storm without frightening my family too much. I have medical supplies, weapons, ammo, junk silver, tactical equipment, radios, food, water, etc. My biggest problem is that I live on Long Island in New York State. Long Island is east of New York City with the Atlantic Ocean, Long Island Sound, and Block Island Sound on the south, east and north. In other words, the only way to evacuate if necessary is thru New York City which would be a nightmare as there are over 3 million residents.. For this reason I have been a fan of your Urban Survival Course and information on how to survive in place.
    Three of my four children are rooted in the NYC area, so that rules out moving to the northwest as I would never see them and my grandchildren (1 is a NYC police officer, 1 works for the NYC school system, and my youngest daughter’s husband work for the Nassau County Water Department which are all very desirable, hard to get jobs. My youngest is a Physician’s Assistant who could work anywhere in the country but like I said she is anchored here on Long Island because of her husband. My oldest son has an insurance brokerage about 1.5 hours north of NYC.
    I have been looking into purchasing a retreat in northern New York State with a house with enough room and land , with defensible attributes, a natural water supply and fertile ground so we can grow food. This retreat will be close enough to see my children and grandchildren yet in an area which is more conducive to survival than Long Island. It would also be reachable with up to a half a days drive for the kids to get there when and if TSHTF. It is also close enough to one of the best concentration of doctors and hospitals in the world if one of us should be in need. As you said in your article, everyone has there own needs and requirements for where the retreat would be.
    There is no “perfect” retreat location, but if we give serious thought and planning to our situation, I believe that we can survive anywhere.
    I pray for the country but always want to be ready for any eventuality.
    God Bless.

    Joseph C
    Long Island, New York

    • I’m also in LI and face some of the same problems. Would like to connect to share some ideas. I don’t know exactly how to do this on a public forum, but maybe we could just meet someplace locally.

      • Joseph C. and Thinker….I also live on Long Island and have been wondering how to look for some like minded people (a support network) but didn’t want to ‘shout it from the rooftop’! Any suggestions?

    • John Whittington says:

      You might want to go to Canton, N.Y. It will take about 5 hours drive but it is no where near the city!

  117. Mike Clare says:

    Hello,
    I am in the map recon mode right now. I have already looked at WA, OR, AZ, TX, GA, IL, KY, WI, NM and ID. Among my considerations: current status of economy and outlook, political climate, arable land prices, tax burden, disabled veteran programs, availability of national forests and size, existing gun and firearm concealment laws, weather and climate, access to healthcare and my religious denomination, resident numbers and population disbursement/ density…and do they have a Barnes and Noble within driving range (I know, not very tactical, but we might be wrong).

    I have also conducted some impromptu/informal interviews of residents and found out some very interesting things My personal plan is to farm, hunt and gather, all of which I have done before. I won’t change much if the SHTF, just hunker down a little more.

    I will be doing some actually drive-about in April and will make my final decision in May.

    Right now my adult children are covered with emergency plans, some stores, firearms and GOOD bags. I may not be able to convince them to leave their lives behind, but that’s ok too. I pray for the best and make ready for the worst.

    Luck in battle, Mike

    • Come check out Indiana. Might be what you seek.

    • Forget about IL, I lived there all my life (Chicago land area) and with the oppressive gun laws (almost like CA, NY, etc) and the thick population, you’d do yourself a disservice going to IL. I ended up going to MS, not because its the best place to go, I have family here and the culture/laws are more friendly as far as self reliance. Gun laws, good, you can walk in a gun show and buy guys from anyone, cash & carry. Long as you stay out of the heavy suburban/metro areas, you’ll have little trouble with ordinances getting in the way of your projects. We live in in an unincorporated rural area, while our mail goes to the nearby small town, we’re not under their rules, just county. They didn’t even know how to handle inspecting our wood stove in our trailer house for the insurance company, we had to tell the fire marshall what they were looking for so they can do it, it was almost hilarious.

      I would say that the best places to be are in the unincorporated/rural areas outside of any small town, you’re still close enough to the town to take advantage of stores/services within the town but not so close to have to deal with the disadvantages of being in that environment. We’re 15 miles from the nearby town our mail goes to and 30 miles from the major city, with the other surburban towns about 20 miles closer. Still we’re out there enough that most people can’t find us easily, if at all, we’re 4 miles from the state highway which is still a 2 lane road, so there’s a large buffer of properties between us and the main routes of travel.

      As far as defensible, our area does have a small “neighborhood”, but the people are all country folks, most have gardens, chickens, cows, etc. The larger properties outside of that area are pasture lands with cows, large lakes, etc. We’re near the large reservoir for the area, so water is not a problem either. I’m even guessing that with the reservoir being so close, the water table might be high enough that tapping a well by hand may be easier than we thought.

      While we haven’t come out as some big time prepper leader, we’re trying to be a little subtle so as to not come on too strong or come off as extremists. I do feel that if TSHTF, it probably won’t be too hard to rally everyone together for the sake of the whole community’s longevity. Especially with the resources that we all have, while sharing will be an obvious thing, I feel we would be able to help take care of each other a lot better than if we were in some subdivision where nobody does any of the simple stuff like raising chickens and gardens, let alone have a prepper mindset.

    • Mike, you might also consider PA. Central, northern, and especially SW (60 miles east of Pgh in the Laurel Highlands) might meet your requirements. Also Greensberg has a B&N. Seriously, Pgh has great medical facilities w/ CMU making a big push to become the next Silicon Valley. They already have big grants in place. Lots of leading/bleeding research in many disciplines. Good people w/ lots of Scots (and Polish). 1 out of every 6 Presbyterian churches is US w/in 150 miles of Pgh. I’m PCA (conservative type) currently exiled (temporarily) from Ligonier. Lots of other denominations. 1 totally liberal Seminary (Pgh Theological) and 1 solidly conservative Seminary (RPTS). Hunters all over. More deer killed by vehicles each year than most states harvest during their hunting season. Lots of steep narrow valleys w/ creeks. Rivers – headwater of the Ohio. Allegheny Co, surrounding Pgh has 400+ bridges. Good tactically defensive options. Pgh lowlands 1000+’ (you can grow seed potatoes), eastwards shading to 2600+’. Good country for food production. Recent climate zone map bumped SW PA 1 level warmer. National forests east and north of Pgh. Currently, pro 2nd Amend, no tax increase Governor. Liberal governments in Philly and Pgh. Tax rate in Allegheny Co is high. Low – Butler Co to north; Greene, Washington, Westmorland, Fayette, Somerset, Indiana to south and east.

      Hope that helps. See Ecology Action (growbiointense.org) forgreat garden efficiency.

    • existing gun and concealment laws. that leaves out Illinois IL does not allow CCW and mayor Rahm is dictating to state they must pass handgun registration and fees

  118. We’re looking for a place out of the U.S. This is no longer the U.S. I grew up in and at age
    91,I’m searching. Singapore appears good. S. America for some reasons just doesn’t seem the place to go. It’s unstable and pricess are now out of my willingess to pay. The climate has to be warm since we’ve lived in Florida for 45 years. Taiwan is a good choice too. I enjoyed it where there years ago. Inflation must be under control with currency backed by gold and or silver. Hyper-inflation is going to bankrupt the U.S. down the road.

    • 91 ! God Bless You! I always say that my grandparents came to America for a better life and that my children should leave for the same reason. Forget Taiwan. Its a target for mainland China, its too long a trip and too different a culture. South America would be closer, is no one’s target, and has a more gentle culture. My wife won’t leave here; at least not yet. I have to settle for stocking up on knowledge and necessities, and keeping a low profile, until the day comes when I may convince her to leave here. I feel like I’m in 1930s Germany, and I don’t see much to be hopeful about.

    • Good luck with that.

  119. Wherever location is;
    1-freeze dried food (and other like canned fruits/veg etc to supplement) enough to last 6 months or more per individual (calculate the caloric needs to get the amount correct.)
    2- enough water to supply 1 gallon per day (or more if possible) per each individual. This includes what is needed for the food re-hydration, drinking, and cleaning. There may be no running water, so if it’s not coming from a clean cistern, then have approriate purification/filters to make it potable.
    3-heating source- most likely no electriciy or gas so have wood to be able to heat a room, and cook food. several cords in advance is best vs trying to find/cut in emergency.
    4-weapons- all varieties. long guns like shotguns and rifles with 1000+ rounds, as well as pistols with 1000+ rounds and extra magazines. (don’t forget extra parts and cleaning materials….a dirty firearm will not function for long.) several knives for cutting a variety of things as well as machetes are easy to store and will keep unarmed individuals at bay.
    5-medical- there are several packaged medical supply packs….add to them what you need; ie- specific medicines, antibiotics, scissors, whatever you know you will need….including simple sunscreen and chapstick too….you may not be finding these items later while you are trying to farm your own food and gather items. Back up clothing is needed. Laundry will be a luxury, so extra clothes, layers for different seasons, sun, snow, wind, rain….you know what you may deal with so store as needed.
    6-patience- The goal of self-sustaining is being independant. Whether you are in a small group, or just one household….you are riding it out until it gets better. If you have ever been in a communtiy that has had an “emergency” declared…you know what it’s like. Obviously Katrina was massive, but tornadoes that take out a town, floods that last a long time, even the 1 day windstorm in North Los Angeles that left millions of homes without power for 3-5 days. All of these are examples of what can happen and how are you prepared to take care of yourself. I experienced the last example, and can tell you I was ok for the week, but saw how millions of people not able to use their refridgerator…and local stores not able to stock their shelves was a real eye opener as to what it will be like when it is even worse…maybe even just 1 month. There is no way any rescue agency can help on this scale….you are on your own! Ride it out….be patient….stay out of the open….when it gets bad, even friends/neighbors will get desperate enough to take from you. I don’t want to sound doom and gloom, but if it was really 1 month of no supplies….millions would be dead either from lack of resources, being looted and what you had is gone, infectious disease from all the death around you, etc. (you get the idea.) Don’t expect help, you can only count on yourself. As for gold/silver etc? I personally like them for investment, but as for buying/trading during bad times? No way….why do I want someone to know what and where I have supplies? It’s an invitation to be looted, or worse. Remember you are on your own, and do it all in advance….preparing after the fact will leave you vunerable in too many ways.

    I’m sure I left stuff out, but this is a great start….and for just 6 months. If you think longer is needed before it’s resolved…..more is needed.

  120. This Information is all very good and all buy I still feel people are ignoring key problems such as what if where they live is attacked/ something happenef where they could no longer live there? All there food storage etc would be gone anyways, I don’t want to get into too much detail but you get the point? It’s not just about having a backup plan but knowing what to do under the chaos of a situation when they have to move.
    Also I heard about this before but for those with a food storage- make sure your boy is adapted to eat the food, there has been known problems in adjusting to say an all bean diet(like death if there’s no doctor) Also I feel people should share if need be, for this restores order quicker as well as takes out some possibilities of bein attacked, but nonetheless be secret too.

    But yet again I feel a good plan is adaptable and Doesn’t depend on a perfect place to stay and knowing the flaws, strengths, as well as the effects of time will do to such a plan (I.e running out of food, being attacked by the military etc) or what will happen to tha perfect place. But if I had to say anything…Eh probably somewhere in the north side of USA because its less populated in some of the more wooded areas and be careful of the south side because there is too much disorder in Mexico right now and when a big disaster happens its only going to slowly leak out into America. Slaves sex trade, etc…. Good chance it’ll happen in south USA because it’s right on the border! Anyways that’s my 2 cents, hope it’s helpful

    • Miss Arleen says:

      Hi Mitchell. I think sharing emergency supplies needs to be a well thought-out gesture. If there is any truth to the fact that only approximately 10% of Americans have prepared for emergencies, then sharing can be iffy at best, dangerous for the most part. If I were to share at all, it would be with family and a few close, trusted friends. Anything else would most likely be putting a target on my back. Preppers could be forced to give up supplies by authorities if they are discovered, not to mention what militant thieves would do…or your next door neighbor if he is starving. Sometimes being “merciful is not wise.

  121. When I think of where it would be good to live, I start with the general locality. What would be good to consider is to find the most conservative state and have all the conservatives move to that state. I am thinking of Texas. It is big and room for lots of people to move in. If there was a massive run of conservatives and preppers into the state, it would change all the dynamics of the state politically. You could have schools that were conservative, government that was conservative and all elected officials. You could pretty much find like minded people everywhere you went, if they would choose to congregate together in one state. That would be my dream location. You can make the rest of things work out. You know, if most of your neighbors have like mindsets, then it wouldn’t be necessary to bug out because the state would be your bug out location. Sounds good to me. Vote out the welfare mentality and vote in the rugged individuals that are honest and respectable.

    • I’m in Texas – wouldn’t be any place else – we are mostly conservative, except for a few pockets of liberal idiots but the rest of us just ignore them. We have plenty of room and the State of Texas has much to offer – plains, piney woods, hill country, coast, and sw mountains. Abundant natural resources – natural gas, oil, wind – we can survive nicely without the rest of the country – and we have our own power grid. All of these things make Texas my favorite place to be. But these is an independent spirit that runs through this Great State that I’ve never found anywhere else. Come join us – we’d love to have more like-minded folks.

      • S.Bryant Adkins says:

        Your after my heart Roberta…;-)

      • captain mike says:

        When I was growing up I thought Texas was crappy. I couldn’t figure out why everybody I met from there was so wild about it. Then I went there. Now I get it. I would say God Bless Texas, but He already has.

      • Carefull ignoring those liberal idiots. They try to take over when youre not looking. Have a similar situation here in Nevada.

        • The liberal idiots here in TEXAS tend to be like the liberal idiots everywhere else. Cityfied and completely unprepared for self sufficientcy. We have to worry about them if nothing goes wrong though, as they are a cancer where ever they are. I have heard that Austin is overrun with them, too bad.

      • Roberta and friends, Texas has many wonderful advantages but don’t let that cause you to ignore potential threats. The military’s nightmare is a pandemic starting in Mexico pushing 8-10 million people north in a vain attempt to escape the disease. BTW it’s 50-50 whether the Swine Flu started in Mexico or China. The cartels and Jehadis control almost all of Mexico and are regularly crossing the border. In some sort of “event” that will get worse. Please keep that in mind as potentials that need to be addressed.

  122. RantingOgre says:

    I grew up on a farm, moved to Toronto for work. Always dreamt that if I made enough money, I would buy a hobby farm, raise some animals and build a greenhouse. Was originally planning on moving out of Toronto in about 5 years, but due to the way things are going in the world, I no longer saw this as a dream but a necessity. We pushed ourselves, found a place and moved in November 2011. I wanted a small hobby farm with at least 10 acres, some wooded area to supply the woodstoves, and it’s own well. We found one with a small barn and workshop. The house and workshop are heated with woodstoves and oil furnaces. I want to install a backup electric generator that runs on the heating oil, since there are two oil tanks for the furnaces anyway. Plus it’s windy here, we’re close to a wind farm, I want to set up my own wind turbines to assist with heating (cheap and easy to do), and eventually also generate electricity for everything else (not so cheap and easy) to get off the grid. The farm is a one hour commute (65kms) to my work in Toronto, not bad considering the average commute time in Toronto is 47 minutes. 15 minute walk to small town of about 5,000 people. Need to buy some guns, we do have a coyote problem, want at least a shotgun (I’m inexperienced so I’m a lousy shot), a rifle (so I don’t always have to be close to my target) and a handgun (easy to carry but hard to get in Canada). My daughter doesn’t like guns, but has always wanted a bow and arrow, not a bad idea. Trying to stockpile as much wood as possible, it needs to dry anyway, and it’s much easier to get while gasoline is still affordable. So far it’s been alot of work, and alot of work to go, but I’m loving it. Found out there is already quite the prepper community here, I’m close to the famous Bruce Beach, who in the 80’s built one of the largest privately owned fallout shelters when he buried 42 buses and named it “Ark Two Shelter”.

    • John Whittington says:

      I have thought of moving to Canada because they aren’t to controversial to the muslims. In other words they probably won’t be a big target. I was taught how to hunt and shoot when I was young. My father was a WW2 veteran and Native American. If you know of any place near where you live I would be appreciative and I am retired!

  123. Govt Employee says:

    I am trying to get my rural neighborhood and work peers in Central Texas interested in Emergency Preparedness. If none of my 50 neighbors prepare, then they will try to take from my home stocks. So far most of them are doing something. Not as much as they should, but any small step is better than none. We live on a huge lake, and are petitioning the HOA to allow small farm animals, such as rabbits, chickens, and goats. Some are looking into wind/solar energy, and there is even talk about taking an unused Tennis court and making it into a community garden plot. It has a very tall fence to keep the critters out. With only one road in, it should be defendable when Marshal Law goes into affect. By pooling our resources and following the Golden Rule, we hope to survive as a community.

    • Gov, the major protection from your neighbors is to be more valuable to them for your knowledge than your stuff. Cultivate that impression by being helpful and providing solutions to their problems / preparation. It takes time and being pushy will cause them to tune you out. You want to be a go-to guy for ideas on how they can get things done. Keep in mind: 1) there are always stupid/lazy and selfish individuals in any group that may need to be treated for acute lead deficiency; and 2) there will be banditos and gangs in any chaotic scenario.

  124. I have been searching for a location if I have to leave my survival in place.
    The big question for me is…how many miles do I have to be from a major target to avoid the direct results of a hydrogen weapon. (not fallout) Don’t know what the “average” size of a missle launched attack is now. Any help on this issue would be appreciated.,

    • One thing I’d suggest is not thinking of “leaving” your survive in place location, but rather “moving” your survive in place location…you’ll always want a plan in place to survive in place where you spend the majority of your time.

      • As far as distance to stay away from the direct effects of any modern fusion bomb, I’d have to say you’d wanna be at least 20-25 miles away from any known target, which is of course airports, major cities, military bases or other missile silos, stuff you’d figure some big boy would wanna blast. Near as I would think, no one is gonna use those humongous 10 megaton bombs like the Russians played around with in the 50’s to blast a regular city, most of the MIRV’s are probably near 1 megaton in size, which you’d prob wanna be a good 20 miles away to not catch the thermal effects from an airburst. Blast effects would be limited to a small gust of wind at those distances. Still, if post-nuclear survival is the thing, I’m more fearful of surviving the fallout and making sure all my assets (animals, water, garden ground, trees) also survived. You could hide in the sewers or a deep basement and survive almost as close as a mile away from an airburst (ground burst-different story), but once the killer dust falls, no matter where you’re at, you’re gonna be underground for a couple weeks or more.

  125. my survive in place location is south ga. with the closest small town 4 miles away. i have an acre of land with pecan trees, a shallow well in a pump house and a small trailer hooked up to a litepole. there is a large lake nearby overstocked with fish. my land backs up to hunting woods and from previous tries i can feed myself with a garden 100x100ft. i can easily bicycle to town. there is a shallow river outside of town and taxes are reasonable. i am trying to get ready and on my list are a handpump in case the power goes out, a moped, and a concealed storage tank that i could mound over with dirt. i plan to build a small house using earthbag construction and plant bushes/trees as screening. i saw a setup down by the river at a camp where black barrels were setup on a raised platform to heat water. i hope to be ready by the end of this year and be a place of refuge for my kids.

  126. I moved to Bulgaria at the end of 2005. I live in an agricultural village of about 2,000 people and about 20 km from a small city at the foot of the mountains. The area is called valley of the peaches, lots of peach and cherry, apple, pear, almond and vineyards as well as sunflower, wheat, potato, etc. Just about all the villagers have at least 1/4 acre vegetable garden next to the house. It’s very backwards, there are still horse carts, and the shephard comes to take your goats/sheep in the morning and brings them back at night. People make their own whiskey and wine, most villages have a still that everyone can use. flocks of geese will occassionally waddle by along the street. Everyone has 1 or two dogs that are “alerting” dogs to let you know someone’s at the gate. People are very hospitable. (and also very nosey – especially the women folk). People do have cars, and tv. I have internet. People walk or ride bicycles more. They don’t leave the village often.

    I was born in Holland and moved to the states when I was 10 and lived there for many years but never felt quite at home, not in the midwest or west. Boston was the place that reminded me most of “home” (Holland). I lived in Holland, various parts of the US and in London.

    I would now never live anywhere else but here. It is a very basic but kind of spiritual lifestyle. It’s much closer to nature and less materially oriented. I have less but feel richer.

    Price of property is very very low.

    • Margie:

      Wow! Makes me want to move there and become one of your neighbors. If a lot of us did, though, it would be crowded and too civilized. Enjoy the good life.

    • I’m glad that this has worked out for you, but for most people, getting a residence permit in a foreign country is not realistic. I was born in the States, of Russian parents, and I have no chance of living there legally. If I was willing to renounce my USA citizenship, maybe. Most all countries have very, very restrictive immigration policies. Would love to live in New Zealand – but frankly, no shot.

  127. 4 years ago we relocated.
    We found a House and 5+ acres with an Artesian well that supplies the house and overflows to a pond stocked with fish, the pond overflows to a river with a gravel spawning bed that is used spring and fall by Rainbow Trout and King Salmon. We have Deer and Turkeys that can be taken from our deck as well as Squirrel, Rabbit and Pheasant. Plenty of firewood and some open ground for gardening. The house and shop are set up with Emergency power powered by a 10,000 Watt gasoline generator for short outages. Some of the people in the surrounding area have free Natural Gas from gas wells on their property. Our plans are for solar panels on the south facing shop roof. We have Wheat stored and a flour mill as well as some canned vegetables and meat. We have used our dehydrator on several types of food.
    We have 4 great multi-skilled neighbors and live on a private road 1200 feet off the county road…(back through the woods) ….Our homes are not visible from the road in any season. Our mailboxes are visible. Nearest grocery is 11 miles, the nearest Supermarket is 15 miles.. Major shopping is 23 miles, Hospital is 18 miles
    We are 75 years old and over the years we have gained the knowledge as well as a library for self sufficiency.. I think the most important piece of being self sufficient is having the knowledge. No one can take knowledge away from you.
    The next most important would be Tools and the knowledge of how to use them. Tool practice is invaluable also! Practice gardening, practice with your firearms, practice with animals,
    Some Tools like Firearms may need to be hidden from the powers that be. Firearms can be taken away.
    Over the years we have raised small animals (rabbits, chickens, fish) we have gardened, we have learned to forage and hunt as well as many other skills ..
    WE HAVE NEVER NEEDED THESE SKILLS, HOWEVER IT FEELS GOOD TO KNOW WE HAVE THE ABILITY, ( iF NEEDED) TO FEND FOR OURSELVES..
    This is turning into a book… Time to quit and wish you all the best in the coming years..

    • Sounds idyllic. God Bless.

    • jade, sounds like you got it covered pretty good. good for and yours.
      take care, gb.
      dog

    • John Whittington says:

      I have been thinking of living in such a place. I was an armed Security Officer & a Corrections Officer for a total of 25 years. I have weapons to hunt with and for protection. I am 60 years old and my Mother is 81 years old. I was trained by my father who was a World War 2 veteran and a Native American. I have C.C.W. permits in West Virginia, Nevada & Florida, just to show that I have been checked out! I am living in West Virginia right now.

    • Good for you. Sounds like perfect place: got food, water and seclusion..

  128. I think that All good God fearing Jesus loving people should Stay where you are then,
    Reread the bible.
    believe in what he said.
    If you are truly saved. WTSHTF, you wont be here.
    If you don’t believe then keep trying to save yourself.
    Those who will be last will be first.
    Those who will be first will be last.
    The Antichrist is in the White House,
    Has been there since they Murdered JFK

    • Doesn
      t the bible say run to the woods and dont look back?

      • Thats where i am right now In Pa. Two houses one earth berm ed, 1300 sq. ft on 2.4 acer,with a one acer pond, the other one is a raised ranch, 2.000 + sq. ft. with 5.3/4 acres with access to the one acer pond, 1,445 ft. above sea level, both are for sale, I’m going to Fl. And waite for Jesus to take me home! Any takers?

    • Hey, Gene–I believe in the pre-appocalypse rapture; however, I also believe that a lot of crap can hit the fan before God decides to have his presence felt. So, I have stockpiled a bunch of things with the understanding I may never have to get into it. When I think it may be a waste of resources for me, two more thoughts occur: one–I may have to deal with a lot of bad pookie before the rapture DOES occur, so it would NOT be a waste. And two–it’s just “stuff.” If I’m not around, it may sustain somebody else while THEY are getting saved. In that case, it would again NOT be a waste…..

      • Simplethings says:

        Alright, I guess some of you may throw rocks at me but here goes. 1. If you think you are one of the saved ones, you probably aren’t. Christ was above all else a humble being and to my knowledge never put himself above others or asked of anything for Himself except to be spared and we know how that worked out. Reread Daniel and Revelation. Don’t use someone’s or your interpretation to trick you into thinking you’re more special or more worth “saving” than someone else. That type of thinking is what has gotten us into this mess in the first place.

        2. As Sameyeam says, whatever you acquire now may not be planned from above to be of use to you. Maybe so, maybe no. We are entering a world that none of us can imagine, possibly even by the standards of the worst off in our country now. Prepare, but prepare in the spirit of what would be of most use to anyone who survives and you can’t go wrong, even for yourself. You must take care of yourself first but over the long haul how well you take care of others will be your real strength. Defend but don’t defile.

        3. Personally I think the mental anguish we will endure will be much greater than the physical stress we are planning for. It is relatively easy to take care of bodily needs but the mental and soulful trials will be what really determines how we will live and/or die in our unknown future and how God will judge us when the time comes.

    • Gene,I have served the Lord and studied many years. The Lord gave us common sense, and the ability to protect ourselves from the evil of our Leaders,the resourses to prepare.I truly believe our Lord will take us out,before it gets really bad, but he also expects us to be prepared,spiritually,and physically. The Lord told us,when you see a storm coming, you take shelter, do you not? The Lord gave us the signs, so we will prepare, and it is showing belief when we do. When we are taken out of the worst,as he has promise,there are still those friends and family who will be left behind, and they will know where they can find the information,and things they need,because we believed enough to prepare for them.When you see a truck coming and you step in front of it and die,it is not because faith, and the Lord has nothing to do with that choice you made.

    • As for the bible, I worry when people stop talking about rapture. You won’t know the time he comes, and he will comes, it will be as a thief in the night. I don’t know if I will be taken up or left behind, but I don’t worry about that. I live my life as a good, God fearing man, and prepare for the worst while praying for the best. If all I gather is not necessary, I am sure a few I know will be there to benefit. Otherwise, I keep my groups within 6” at 25 yard with a pistol and the scope clean on the rifle. Jade has found a special place; I hope you too have such a place if your current plans fall through Gene.

    • I have been studying scripture for many many years, and I’ve come to the conclusion that what people call the “rapture” is going to happen after the tribulation. As so many are counting on WTSHTF not being here, it will be one of the main reasons for the great “falling away” of believers in those last days. I recently went through a course on this topic of Bible study by Mike Bickle called the Omega Course. Every “pre-tribber” that took it had changed their minds by the end.

      • Miss Arleen says:

        I had a very wise Pastor who refused to take a particular stand on when the rapture would occur, i.e., pre-trib, post-trib, etc.. Instead he adopted what he called “pan-trib”. He said, “That means I’m just gonna see how it all pans out.” Very wise decision. Not only did I adopt that stand, I have also passed it along as I am now because what if it the end times don’t unfold the way we think they will? Preconceived ideas are not a good thing to adopt in these times. Our eyes need to be on the Lord, not the circumstances. That doesn’t mean we should become oblivious- just don’t depend on what you see in the natural for your answers. Instead, look for what the Lord is saying supernaturally.

      • My be that he’s wrong and you all fell away.
        Beware of false Prophets.
        i believe what he said in the BIG BOOK,
        As he instructed believers.
        I study with him & me, I don’t listen to no one else,
        So you let some one else beside Jesus, teach you?
        I think if your saved you know the truth why change your mind?
        Just saying Gene.

    • Don’t forget the God inspired David to interpret the Pharaoh’s dream so they could stockpile wheat for seven years for the seven years of famine. You are writing about the end of mankind on earth, not the really hard times ahead. There are many scriptures that speak of preparing for famine and Jesus warned the residents of Jerusalem that when they saw the city surrounded leave because not one stone would be left upon another. That didn’t happen until 40 years later, but it did happen and those who remembered left – and lived. Shortly thereafter history records that Rome destroyed the city and many of those in it. If those reading here could grasp the power of prayer they would not fear. Some might stay where they are, others might leave, but we are not all clones. The comet that John saw strike the ocean has not happened and many more things have to happen before Jesus returns. I seem to recall one of the proverbs mentions that a prudent man sees danger and flees. Pray about everything and God will not let you down, but we are all His children and one size does not fit all. We are all different. Pray, and Fear Not!

  129. I’m about to relocate, and plan to stay near the water, but on a larger property of further out from where I am, but close enough to family. I want to be in an area zoned to have chickens etc., and have some anonymity. I’d like to be off the grid, but need an education in solar etc. Any advice as to the best resources on off the grid?

    • Dr. Prepper says:

      C-Girl,
      Education is the key! Go online and learn EVERYTHING you can on solar and wind power…….beware of exotic claims. When you think you can install the system yourself then you are ready to look into it with the intent of buying….you will know the questions to ask and whether their claims are realistic or smokescreen.
      The axiom I hear most is: 95% of people that look into solar/wind end up buying a generator………it’s cheaper and easier….as long as there is fuel.
      Good luck!

  130. what about those of us who don’t have the financial means of buying a property? Any one out there need a hired hand?

    • Dr. Prepper says:

      Michael,
      Look for land to lease…..usually 5-10-15-20 yrs and renewable or buy on contract with little or no money down and no credit check……lots out there with the current economy. You will probably have to pay more to do this than paying cash
      [ cash talks-bulls*&# walks] but it gets you in the door NOW!

  131. Up here in Northern NY, one place fits the basic survival criteria: Owls Head/Mountain view communities are located 800 feet above sea level. There are a few lakes in the area, but they are not large enough to cause serious damage unless you live near the shoreline. Blizzards and winter storms are the biggest threat, environmentally. A Preppie with decent gardening skills would do well.Alot of land here is for sale. The soil is acidic and it’s a zone 3 growing area, so my main crops are fruit trees and berries.

  132. www.newcamelot.info is a new group near Nashville TN We are a fortified self-sustaining emergency escape retreat and we are actively looking for new members.
    Please checkout the website I think it can save ALOT of lives.
    David.

    • A Direct Descendant of Ethan Alan says:

      I’m sorry to be the one to burst your bubble: Yours is one of the FIRST places that will be attacked by B.O’s U.N. “Peacekeepers”.

  133. If you are looking for your perfect location & find it don’t tell everyone because shortly in won’t be perfect ! Perfect to me is not perfect to you, so everyone can find mostly( key word- mostly ) what their looking for. Did you ever find that perfect move in ready house ? It’s rarely out there, a needs & wants list will assist you in your search if your honest with yourself. Don’t put yourself on national Tv saying I have 3 years worth of food or 37 firearms with plenty of ammo. When it hits the fan you’ll find your like kind by natural selection or who’s still alive after 45 days. Pray daily & help will be given !

  134. My wife and I love the eastern islands in the Caribbean, but not sure of the safest location. We’ve also considered Belize and Panama. Any recommendations?

  135. I do not see mentioned having some self-defense skills. No everyone can be a TKD black belt, but just about everyone can learn enough basic skills, such as Krav Maga, to make an attacker pay a heavy price. While there are many places you cannot take your pepper spray, large knife, or firearm, no one can stop you from bringing along your SD skills. Plus, keeping them fresh is great exercise.

  136. Firstly, check the earthquake history of the location. The key word is “seismicity”. Stay away from boundaries of tectonic plates. (See maps etc.) That eliminates all of Central America, the Caribbean, the Andes, the west coasts of North and South America, the Mississippi valley (i.e. the New Madrid fault.) and the Saint Lawrence area.

    Secondly, choose a location that will be in a low latitude after the pole shift. In North America, that puts you in the Mountain or Pacific time zones — but the Pacific zone is excluded by criterion #1.

    Thirdly, stay away from nuclear power plants and large cities.

    Incidently, Yellowstone will flow, not blow, 100 miles away will suffice.

    Fourthly, be at least 200 miles from a large body of water and at least 800 feet elevation. Better: at least one mountain range between you and lake/ocean, and 2000 feet elevation.

    (Much of my information comes from data in an Internet site that this one never references, so I will not but a link here.)

  137. I plan to stay where I am in Clovis, CA next to Fresno. I have lived in this area since 1985 and liked it. From a strict survival standpoint this location is anything but ideal, but I have my business here and all my friends and acquaintances, along with excellent medical care. I live alone; I’m 77 years old. If I have to, I will stay and fight. As Mexican Revolutionary Emiliano Zapata so well put it’ “I’d rather die on my feet than live on my knees.”

  138. home should be west upwind of large cities/targets/nuclear plants and have a ham radio powered by a 12 volt battery

  139. Looking for your new location? Read your Bible every day and put your trust in God.
    Memorize: Psalm 37:23 “The steps of a good man are ordered by the Lord; and he delighteth in his way.” Also: II Timothy 1:7: “For God hath not given us a spirit of fear, but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.” Just a few verses to help you find the way.
    Always be ready to share the love of our Lord Jesus Christ with others if they are willing to listen. God bless you!

  140. Haveing a solid bike would be a great addition to any plan.

  141. I live in a medium size town in Indiana. There are several areas within 80 miles that have large Amish populations and are large distances from any major city. As I drive past them in their buggies, I always think that it would be great to somehow have a deal in place to move to their town if needed. They would notice very little change if the modern world went to hell.

    I don’t know how possible it would be to join their ranks, but I can’t think of any group better prepared to handle an EMP attack or social collapse.

  142. We set on over 400 ac of what used to be farm land. We grassed it all in about 15 years ago and run many cattle, Boer goats,chickens and horses.Or drive way is 3/4 mile to our home an a hill with about 8ac. of virgin brush. We maintain a large garden along with some citrus and fruit trees. Our property is flood irrageted from a river along with a deep water well. We have a shollow elect. well to run the house and have installed a ahollow hand pump well so water and good soil should never be a problem. My main consern is we set in the middle of a Valley about 125 miles long with about 3-million people that live from pay check to pay check..We get a storm headed our way or stoers or empity on day one. I am afread we would be over run on about day three. Many people in our Valley live on food stamps. I do belive if you don’t give it to them they will take it. We are well armed and can defind our self.but sooner or later they will get lucky. I really don’t know wherther to stay or leave.

    • Wow, that sounded like an ideal situation, up until halfway through the paragraph. I’m not you, but, if I were; I’d try to find some rich idiot looking for a hobby farm and get the hell out. Otherwise, fortify and plan to hold them off; but, as you mentioned, to do that you must be lucky always, they only need to be lucky once.

  143. the best place is a farm min.of 5 acres and a drinkable water well. 3 acres shoud be woods so you can have wood and wild animals to hunt. the rest house,barn,orchard and roation of crops,grass and animals. reamber a 5 minent car ride takes most people an hour to walk so you dont realy need to go that far away from town.

  144. “Home”, they say, is “Where the Heart Is”, does not always meet the needs a “prepper” has.
    I have searched from TN. (too crowded) to AZ. (tax base too high), CO. high (too expenseive, now – CA ruined it), north of CO gets too cold for me. As I have lived all over TX and NM, I have found many places that are attractive to living in a survival situation. Remember Y 2K, well it prompted me to return to TX as the NM gun laws were so arbitrary at that time, from city to city there, it discouraged me, and although the Gila Wilderness with its large amount of game, provided me with many choices as well as wood, water, space and many good people. Developed a group with what I thought had similar goals, ideas, and political thoughts about what was going on, when the bottom dropped out of the folks that wanted to go in a direction I considered dangerious and too continue. Making a long story short I found TX to more to meet my family needs and was in fact in place pror to Y2K, with a propain refrid, stove, instant hot water heater (500 gal tank + 250 gal) a good well, + – 3,000 gallons of water storage and developed a deer herd of 25 to 30, white and black tails that would come to call as i fed them. This location was one selected way back in 73, but made later choices in the have progressed to the above position. (original location there turned out
    not to be a good choice). There are problems as living within 80 to 100 miles from MX, is some times dangerous from the “Drug Mules” backpacking 60 or more pounds to I-10 or 20, and drug cartels active all along the river from El Paso (Cd. Juarez, MX, world’s Murder Capitol to Brownsville, TX. and the Zetas (Former MX Spec Forces, some of which were trained by US Military). In spite on this, the most serious problem faced since Y2K has been
    unpredictable WILD FIRE’s due to high winds, weather change, ABNORMAL COLD WEATHER, nor water for 8 days, FUEL COSTS and Drougth too. I guess what I am trying to say is, do the best you can, for your family needs, but remain flexiable with at least two (2) or more alternatives. In prospective, sometimes the Ideal location, can become
    a hazard to ones best plans so DO NOT put your EGGS all in ONE BASKET (OR LOCATION). STAY SAFE !

  145. We can personally attest that God/Yahweh placed us on our property. We had looked over A LOT of properties for months before this one landed in our lap for an almost give away price. We now own 18 acres of river front property, 2/3rds wood and open land for grazing. All this nestled up next to the Blue Ridge Mountains within 12 miles of WV. We have mountains on all sides and it looks pretty rural. I can drive 6 miles to the nearest town for basic supplies and drive 25 miles to get to the city of Harrisonburg. We don’t live “way out in the boonies” but once you get thru Brocks Gap, it sure looks that way. We love it here!

  146. This is where someone needs to start a prepper militia community website for initial rally locations say a 24-36 hour time frame. I would love to join with some familes. No one can survive on their own and when the govt comes you WILL need fire power. AND THEY WILL COME. I forsee a RED DAWN situation we will be occupied by our own facist GOVT.(I was just following orders) and the united nations. “Surrender your guns we are here to help.” Anyone who does not surrender will be deemed a terrorist. One mans terrorist is anothers FREEDOM FIGHTER. If you do surrender ALL your supplies will be confiscated and you will be sent to your local FEMA camp. “Give me Liberty or give me death.” If you have not done so visit OATHKEEPERS.COM I am not alone in this belief and am a veteran the young kids joining are clueless and will follow orders.

    • Patriot,

      You MAY be right, but there are a couple of major points that I’d like to make:

      1. If there ever is a roundup, MOST LEOs and military will get rounded up with all of the non-military/LEO preppers. Some will capitulate, but most love this country. Why do I say that? Because most of my friends are or have been military or law enforcement and they’ve got the same concerns that I do. They know there are plenty of turds in their professions, but there are also tens of thousands of good solid guys.

      2. There are several degrees of breakdown in civil order that could happen between where we’re at now and a Red Dawn scenario that are much more likely to happen (or happen regularly like floods and hurricanes) and are much more mundane. Focusing on guns and bullets at the expense of focusing on food, water, medical skills, psychology skills, etc. means that you may be prepared for the worst case scenario, but not for all of the other scenarios that are more likely to happen. Focus on skills. Focus on basics. Focus on fundamentals.

      • Dr. Prepper says:

        I live around the Phoenix area. Last night on the news, the main lead in story, was about a cache of exotic weapons and a hoard of cash in a “Good Neighborhood”. They arrested two suspected drug traffickers and showed a picture of the one that got away.
        Here’s what the cameras showed that were on scene: 1-Ar-15, one shotgun, several ordinary pistols and the cache of cash [Total of $11,000.00] found in the freezer. NO drugs, no drug making items….nothing else. I have more weapons, more cash than this. So I could be the next “Drug Lord” arrested and I am sure with no rights because I will be labeled a “Terrorist”. Scary HUH?
        I guess the “Exotic was the AR ? Just sensationalism at it’s best [or worse].
        Oh, the guy that got away….of obvious Mexican descent, so everybody watching would make the obvious conclusion………..Illegal, and gun and drug trafficker. But, just maybe, they were just like you and me. They worked hard, didn’t trust banks as far as you could throw them, and hid their money in the refrigerator[most thieves know to look there] and had weapons to protect themselves………..just sayin’……..??

    • A Direct Descendant of Ethan Alan says:

      There is a lot of good advice on this blog and I really enjoy reading it.
      I live in a county that is more than 90% loyal to B.O.
      So, I have to be EXTREMELY careful! I do not think its a good idea for anyone to tell the world what all they have in terms of resources when the SHTF. Does anyone Remember when The head of DHS, Janet NEOPOLITAN called all of us verterans “terrorists”?!
      Does anyone here actually believe that agents from DHS are not reading what we’re all saying here?!
      Remember the old expression, “Loose lips sink ships”.

  147. David: For my wife and I, our best bet would be to stay put and prepare to survive in place. We are Seniors, and have medical issues that preclude us from living in, or near a remote area. I would love to do that, but we would have a difficult time coping with the rigors of wilderness living, and we need to be near to medical facilities and our Doctors.

    My first step is gathering a full, two-year food supply. To do that, I found a company that makes freeze-dried foods and emergency supplies and gives us a small business opportunity, selling their products, This is giving us a way of helping others get their food storage without going into debt. It is also the best tasting, and most highly nutritious emergency food storage on the market. In fact we converting our shopping to use it every day, and cut down on our dependence on grocery stores. I am not going to name the company, or give out my website, because I don’t want people to think I’m writing this, just to sell food and make money. If someone wants information about doing it, they can ask me through this website,

    Also you have to have a means of protecting yourself and your family. My chosen weapon for self-defense is a 12 ga., pump shotgun, and self defense ammunition, The ammo I have stored is Winchester PDX1. It has a one ounce slug, with three OO Buckshot. It is a devastating round and is effective against the ten percent of criminals who are stupid enough to try to continue a break-in, after they hear you “rack” a shell into the shotgun. Other choices for guns is a good .ss rifle and pistol, and a .45 caliber, semi-auto hand gun for concealed carry.

    The third consideration is armoring your home against intruders. I don’t believe that a lot of guns, guarantees personal safety. What is just as, or more important is to make it as hard as possible for criminals to break into your home in the first place. Some effective ; and inexpensive fixes; such as “Door Armor,” can be installed for $150.00 on entry doors, and even thwarts police battering rams from breaking the locks and door jambs, as long as you have steel entry doors. Google “Door Armor”. This company is small; they have about ten employees, but their product is really impressive. I believe that the company is based in Tennessee. Also installing steel window shutters to prevent that kind of entry, is vital in a state of emergency. Also a “Safe Room” is a good thing to build and fortify. All of these items can cost less than the price of a good hunting rifle, and looters will usually look for an easier target after they try breaking into your home after it’s fortified.

    Water is more important than food. If you do not have a source of fresh, potable water, all of the freeze food in the World won’t do you much good. I am looking into installing a 1500 gallon storage tank in our garage, that’s connected to the city water supply. I want to plumb it so that the water coming into the house goes into the tank under pressure, and then goes into the houses plumbing. Cost?: Under $1000 for the tank and plumbing.

    Sanitation: No matter what happens, an ahead can kill. That’s all that needs to be said about waste. The methods vary according to budget and include incinerating and composting toilets, to bucket’s with seats, heavy plastic bags and RV chemicals neutralize waste, so it can be buried,

    First Aid and Medicine: In the event of an economic/civil collapse, prescription drugs are not going to readily available. Try to get ahead, and stock-up, then rotate your supply. Many times Type-2 Diabetes can be “cured” by losing weight and getting back into shape. Getting lean and exercise can jump-start your pancreas and get it to producing insulin again. Type 1 Diabetes is a big problem because at this time, this form of Diabetes isn’t curable. Type 1’s have to have insulin. Medical researchers are starting to zero-in on a cure, but at this time a cure is in the future. This poses a real dilemma for Diabetics, and if there are any Physicians out there who have ideas on the storage of insulin and preserving it, please contribute some solutions to the problem.

    Alternate shelter and “Bug-Out Kits:” The minimum recommendation is by the Red Cross is a three-day pack. But they should be modified to handle a two-week emergency/evacuation by adding food, water and supplies.

    That is all that I can think of for preparedness, except for mental, spiritual, and personal preparedness. But this will vary so much from individual to individual, that there is no one way to do it. That solution is up to you.

    I hope this helps.

  148. After evaluating sites for over 20 years for numerous clients I can tell you that it is all client specific. Most want dual use faciliteis where the rural retreat can also be used for family vacations. Some want mainly defensable and sustainable locations. For groups we have sited the homes where they can defend each other. Basic rules, be where you can’t be seen from the main road, have a “choke point” or spot on your driveway where you can stop people, have a fall-back area and pre-positioned supplies where you can take back your home after an attack and most important of all, maintain NEED-TO-KNOW. Don’t tell your neighbors or anyone else your plans or capabilities. Hardened Structures

  149. Dave
    We moved to a rural community 12 years ago and are on good terms with most of our neighbors. The property 5 acres is located mid point between Toronto and Ottawa both approx 3 hour drives, 6 miles from a small hamlet, 20 miles from a small town with hospital and 60 miles from a fairly large center with a major sized hospital and shopping malls. The area abounds with game, lakes, streams and even springs. We have a fair sized garden, apple trees and will have chickens this spring. In addition to that we are slowly building our inventory of foods, medicals and barter supplies. The house has 3 heat systems with the fallback being a wood stove. We maintain a years supply of seasoned firewood. we have generators and some gas but are looking at solar panels for light & communication. Have plans for a water cistern and root cellar this summer. Have at least 2 hardcore friends reasonably close, two of us are ex military and the third is an exceptional hunter plus adult family that would be here in a disaster scenario. I am a firearms instructor so we think that sector is fairly well covered. A major concern here is communications if cell, satellite and land lines go down. We are looking at CB’s but if anyone has any other ideas we’d like to hear them.
    However just in case this sounds too good this is not a perfect location for a number of reasons, there are a lot of very poor government dependent people within a 25 mile radius, black flies & mosquitoes are a real pest in the summer and storms, snow, ice and freezing cold in winter all have their impact.
    We also have concern for forest fires, hurricanes and tornadoes.

    My wife travels 40 miles per day to and from work and I spend a fair amount of time traveling so we have bug out bags in both vehicles, spare cash and cell phones.

    There is one other factor we considered on locating here and that was the fact this area is 1200 feet above sea level.

    Comments would be appreciated.

    • It sounds like your in good with your community. Thats a plus. It would take a whole community to come together for a secure area. Unlike some who have only 4 or 5 people in the bunch. The more you have, the more secure you can be. Just have everyone in the gorup have their own food supply. You can’t feed the world.

    • Trainier,
      My local emergency preparedness group (we changed it to something innocuous to avoid government interest) is promoting the use of Ham Radios for emergency commo. Most of us are now licensed, others are pursuing the same; some refuse to get licensed but have the equipment and knowhow, so they can try to stay under the radar. You may want to look into generating your own wood gas for use in vehicles, etc. I have only read about it, but it seems to be a byproduct of turning wood into charcoal, and is very useful.
      Semper Gumby (Always Flexible)
      General

  150. I’ve been giving this issue a lot of thought over the last 10-years. My first inclination would be to move overseas where the cost of living is half to a quarter of what it is in the US. I hate leaving the greatest nation on God’s green earth but even the political stability of our country is questionable.

    After finding such a country, I would develop an online business, it’s portable and barring an EMP strike worldwide, would provide income apart from the social security system. Which by the way is heading for sure insolvency.

    Agricultural skills need to be honed, seeds and other implements need to be exported to the new country of residence.

    Desiring to keep a low profile in whatever country demands a certain degree of isolation. Other ex-pats would be important to have close by. After all, we come from the same country, have the same mind set and we need each other!

    It would be important to have a metro center nearby, population 100K (two-three days hiking distance). Again barring a worldwide EMP blast, connect ability to a satellite hook-up is vital.

    I know this post has been all about location. As they say in business it’s all about locatio, location, location.

  151. S.Bryant Adkins says:

    In my opinion. The first thing is be financially independent. Live at or below your means.
    When disaster strikes. You can walk away with little or no obligation when its time to flee and re-establishing will be simpler.

  152. David- I have appreciated reading your e-mails for a couple of years. Have purchased some information from you a while back. We moved from Southern California l8 months ago after living ther all of our lives to a semi-rural area north of the Reno/Tahoe area. We started preparing for hard economic times about three years ago. We are of retiring age but are three sons also live in the same area. We have been supporters of Lyndon LaRouche, a 7 times candidate for President of the U.S. This gentelman’s organization is the best, the best I said, intelligence gathering, fact finding entity in the world. Please go the website: LaRouchepac.com. I believe you will find information that will support your reasons for doing what you do.

    • Michael: Have you ever attended a LaRouche rally? I did one time back in 1982. It was the most uncomfortable experiences of my life. You could feel the evil in the whole presentation.
      It was held in the Kennedy Center in D.C., and a friend who had gotten involved, invited my fiance; now my wife; and I, to go with him. The entire rally had all of the trappings of a rally of Hitler’s Germany. Banners with a marching grand entrance, and speakers that spewed Fascist ideologies.
      LaRouche is no patriot. His ideas; in my opinion; are more in line with the KKK ideology and the resurgence of Hitler’s Germany. This man is a wolf in sheep’s clothing.
      My recommendation is to stick fast to the Founder’s Constitution and the principles found in their writings and our documents of freedom. These men got it right. To fix our problems in America, all we have to do is follow their plan, and follow the Commandments that Moses received on the mountain from God. The solutions to America’s problems really are as simple as following those two steps.

  153. I have an extremely remote plot with 80 acres on a very large river in Alaska. I have been thinking about moving there with my wife but the problem is the solitude. I have been looking for 2-3 families with like minded goals to move out there but have come up empty handed. I was planning on farming the land and hunting and fishing and building a few more cabins on it for the other families. Any ideas?

  154. I’m just starting to learn about preppers. Not sure just what to think yet, but I guess I’ve always been a natural prepper.
    I love history. Read everything I could get my hands on about the founding fathers and early America. I began my fascination with history as a young boy working in a laundry mat in the early 60’s. The man I worked for would pay me in old coins and tell me stories about the history of coins and the country during the dates on coins.
    From there I began to study old ways of doing things. Tools used for everything from gardening, farming and wood working. Cooking, grinding grains, canning, and storage. I’ve made all these things a part of my life style. I raise much of my own food. I’m a seed saver and store only heirloom seeds for the following season.
    As an eagle scout from the 60’s I learned many skills and how to prepare for any situation. I have always enjoyed shooting sports and own many fire arms and store thousands of rounds of ammo for each firearm.
    You know those coins I would get back at my job at the laundry mat? I still have them. I have thousands of silver coins. Walking liberties, Standing liberties. Mercury dimes. Rolls and rolls of silver coins including many rolls of 1964 Kennedy. I love Morgan silver dollars and peace dollars and have hundreds of them. I also have many twenty dollar gold coins that I’ve collected all my life.
    I guess I’m writing this because what has always been a natural indulgence and hobby in my life now seems to be important to many people, While most people through my life always thought I was a bit odd and old fashion.
    I didn’t do any of this because I feared the end of times. I did this out of respect of the old ways. Now I’m starting to feel pretty well ready for anything.
    I’m in my 60’s now. Live on a small, but secluded piece of ground several miles outside of a small farm town in Kansas. Still work in the big city, and hope to retire like most folks, someday soon. Thought I’d share with you because the world is starting to worry me. We are going in the wrong direction. If I can learn something from you and /or help you with something, I’ll try my best.

  155. If you are concerned with locations of nuclear power plants, check out this zip code locator. Just put in your zip code.

  156. Building up a “family compound” with 39@ backing up to a 30,000@ fresh water lake and over 50,000@farmland.
    Already have 14@ = house, barn and two fenced 6@ fields. One for 3 cows the other for 12-14 sheep and a Fowl pin approx (40x80feet with 8 foot wire overhead)going to stock with chickens, ducks, geese, dove, turkey, etc.
    All within 10 miles of 25,000 town/hospital and an Interstate Hwy.
    Also have guns/ammo and seed stored in bunker (8’x20′) Worst case living***
    Scheduled to gather 3 families consisting of 3 male adults, 5 females and 4 children. Two females shoot and hunt as good as any.
    Currently sell garden produce and eggs at local farmers market.
    With amount of game, fish, livestock and garden produce we should be able to feed ourselves….trying to figure out power alternatives. windmill, water paddle, etc. things that can work and don’t cost too much.
    It’s a journey to better living…

  157. As you said, there is no one place that is perfect for everyone. For me, about an hour west of Panama City (the one next to the canal) is pretty close to perfect. No need for a furnace or air conditioner, friendly people, reasonable prices for food and property. You do need to stay away from the gringo traps. PT Barnum has his followers here as well as just about everywhere you go.

  158. The town I live in has a population of 400 or so. One road in,and a river runs through the center of town.We have our own hydro generating plant,on the river.There is lots of wildlife,but a short growing season.Most of the people in town aren’t preppers, per say,but they are pretty self reliant,if that makes sense.We are 60+ miles to the closest Walmart,which they will drive to at the drop of a hat.It’s expensive to live here,property wise. My house was double what I could buy it for,say 150 miles away.I truly love it here.After living here for a while,I joined the VFD,just because it seemed like the thing to do.The only real drawback to living here is,everyone knows your business,or thinks they know.I’ve turned a few key people onto this website.Ones that i could count on,WTSHTF.The one road in,one road out can be very defensible. Good Luck

    • Look south of Hope off AR Hwy 29. Good farm land and timber, and a few roads that are the only access to small communities.

  159. Number one priority is geological correctness. This means the location is not going to exerience excessive radiation, waves heaving their bounds, floods, hurricanes, tornados, snakes, etc., in my lifetime. The other consideration is that I would like to live where the land is not taxed since the taxman has attempted to remove what is mine on more than one occasion through subtle means. Property taxes wield too much power against homeowners. Only a few states afford such protection as the right to own property outright without having to deal with collectors.
    One night, upon retiring, I prayed I would know the ideal location. In my dream I was given a zip code. I suggest everyone use this tactic. The location is about halfway to the center of the continent, and practically in the middle of nowhere. I checked and it truly has about the least amount of radiation readings in the US and is not in the vicinity of reactors or earthquakes. (I do not like having to move). But the taxman is there so I have no motivation to go there at this time.

  160. If I weren’t involved in Gulf of Mexico oil support I would return to my childhood rural Ozark location offering most required self sufficiency potentials. However; as that would be dubject to New Madrid Fault Line as well as fall out from a Yellowstone Eruption, I am searching out a location with:
    Minimum of 20 acres, elevation above 100′ MSL. Near National forest?
    Sloped land to support Earth Sheltered house and out buildings.
    Water in form of (more than 1): well, spring, stream, pond/tank/lake.
    Mixture of trees, pasture and garden.
    Minimum of 100 yard open line of fire.
    Nearby (3-5 mi?) town but well off of any high traveled path/road.

  161. Mary Russell says:

    I moved a year ago to a more rural location with more land. The neighborhood has an active Neighborhood Watch and the people are used to being alert and proactive. I also have more land, raise horses and can grow some food. The place has it’s own well. It could be defended if need be as the house is on a hill at the end of a street. I have joined 2 local organizations to meet the people around me.

  162. Bill Klubek says:

    I am personally frustrated with all politicians because they all lie to us like we are five years old and believe the manure that they are trying to spread. For example the president, or any other senator,mayor,or what ever when they are trying to get elected always say,AND I QUOTE I will get jobs for people, or I will balance the budget. The only problem is they KNOW that the only way that this will happen is if congress or city council,or whom ever will not let him do this then he blames the congress for not passing the bill And he knows that this will happen. the way to know a politician is lying is when he opens mouth!!!!!!!

    What would happen if the politicians had to pay damages for all the lies how many would be, or have a truth in politics law,BUT THAT WOULD NEVER HAPPEN because all the laws are made by politicians,Oh what a tangled web we weave.

    I recently asked a senator from kansas why we don’t stop sending money overseas and spend it on people in th us LEAGALLY and his response was it has to do with diplomacy and after all we are the richest country in the world. Senator open your eyes to reality, you might be well off but there are people here that are homeless and not by choice,by not having enough programs to help the hungry and homeless children in THIS MIGHTY COUNTRY.nOW GET OFF ALL OF YOUR BUTTS AND GET TO WORK AND KEEP OUR MONEY HERE AND BALANCE THE BUDGET, NOT JUST PRINT MORE MONEY,and as for gun laws they don’t work because crooks don’t give a damn about laws that’s why they have most of the assualt weapons,WAKE UP and do something like guarding our boarders with national guardsmen that are here to protect them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  163. Roger W. Grim D.C. says:

    Hi David, I am not yet where I personally want to be….yet! But I am where God wants me to be right now. I presently live where I can have a small garden, I would like to have at least 10 acres or more, in an area that would be out of the way of a large city and main highways and at least a town of 10-15,000 within 8-10 miles. Have privacy, can have rabbits, goats, chickens, to be more self-sufficient. There now is only my wife & I so it doesn’t take a whole lot to please us. We are presently using what we have learned from your course , “Survive In Place”. Thank you, David for all you are doing to help us!

  164. Jim Stokes says:

    Some of the issues I consider are:
    Availability of water: is there clean surface water available, and can a hand pumped shallow well work? Relying on electricity for water adds a lot of extra energy input.
    Since we may need to provide a fresh food supply, is there room to grow vegetables, and
    perhaps room for chickens, and maybe a cow? Have you gardened the property and have
    fertile soil? Poor soil means poor crops. Organic practices mean you won’t have to try
    to find insecticides and herbicides, and are safer.
    Some acreage of huntable land is important.
    The Crisis will probably not last more than 6 months, so a community nearby to recover with would be a help. Total isolation may be more damaging than the “event”.
    Being near enough to “civilization” to walk in. Gas may be prohibitively high or not
    available. If there is no power, gas pumps won’t work! Having a horse may work, but
    adds a lot to complexity.
    Can your retreat be defended if attacked? Can people approach close enough to burn
    you out without being seen and stopped?

    • Cheap, simple transportation to town, a bicycle. Make sure to have a manual air pump and the parts to repair tires and other common problems with bikes. For quiet hunting, consider non firearm alternatives such as a bow or pellet gun. There are some excellent pellet guns out there that are still reasonably affordable. Both of which require a little practice, but can be practiced within your own yard.

  165. I live in a 55 and over community around a lake a couple of miles from civilization. We have many couples in here prepping for something. There are quite a few weapons and retired military, police and hunters in the community. The community is defensible,the lake is a source of water and push comes to shove quite a bit of wildlife to eat. We have several residents who have qualified in the CERT program(Community Emergency Response Team). We are a close community with lots of talent and experience and should do well under trying circumstances.

  166. Dave,
    You really do have a lot of good information and I like reading your newsletters. I watch the preppers show on NGC and think some of the people are very unrealistic. Like the drill driving to the bug out location. Let’s face it, the roads are going to be blocked wih people in panic, and I don’t sever see on the shows where they have a backup plan to stay put in case the roads are in passable. Unless a prepper can have information about a dasater well before anyone else, I feel the road trip out of town is going to be almost impossable. The timing of everyone being at home at that moment ( not at work or out of town ), getting things loaded up, and getting down the road before traffic gets you stranded in the middle of town and now becoming a target is slim. Bottom line, I think most of us will be making the best of what we have at home, except the few that will make it out of town and possably to the location they plan on.
    As far as the guy with 50,000lbs of food in his steel shipping containers, Now that everyone knows where the food is stored, it will be a target for sure.

    1) Never talk about doomsday plans or let people know what you have stored.
    2) If things do go bad, look the part of the poor hungry neighbor. Nobody will come to you looking for food.
    3) Go off the grid. While your making your survivel plans and stash, at least 5 others are planning how to survive when things go down with your stash.

  167. Additional comments The weather is always pleasant. There are no severe storms, the growing season is year around , there is never frost nor temperatures in the 90s. There has never even been hail here. The large city, Bogota (11 million) is about 60 miles away, but the drive is about 3 hours in a car.

    • Mike Austin says:

      You may like it now but if things really go south world-wide, you are a target if you do not look the same as the native population….. Even if that only applies to .5% of the locals population, that is probably more than you can handle.

  168. We relocated several years ago. We moved 9 miles out from a small East Texas town of about 14,000. Chose enough property to grow and raise our own food. We have a good medium depth water well. We have started our own prepper network around us. We are 14 miles off any major state or federal highways.
    This fit the survivability factor we were looking for.

    • Hi Dave,
      I also live in the East Texas area. If you wouldn’t mind I would like to meet some fellow preppers. Does your network have meetings? Please let me know if so.
      Thanks,
      Kim

  169. I dealt with this question in detail and I think I have found the PERFECT place, at least for me.
    I have lived in Upstate NY and South Florida. I wanted a place that was agrarian in nature. Water was vital. I found Picaflores about 2 miles from a tiny Andean village, Somondoco, Boyaca, Colombia. My water supply is a real mountain spring and the total food system is basicly local. Special things are brought from out of the area but all needed foodstuff is available locally. There is a local Medical Center about 7 minutes away and an ambulance the same time and available 24/7. The area is a nearly totally Roman Catholic area ( I am Protestant). Gun laws are very restrictive for newcomers but I am working through the problems for long guns. Home Schooling is very possible. This is a real buy local community with a weekly local market for both buying and selling. I have been accepted as a local even though I don’t speak much Spanish. When help is needed it is rapidly offered. There is a large contingent of police/soldiers who are barracked in town. I have lived here now,for about 9 years and have only found it better and better,

  170. I accidentally fell into the category of out in the woods but with a large community nearby, about 15 to 20 miles away.
    I needed a place to live, had a very limited amount to spend, and while my place is right beside a country road, it is mostly un-noticeable…sort of a drive by and can’t find it sort of place. (Every delivery service had to be talked in by phone in order to reach me) One time I had to stand on the porch with the phone and wave at the driver so he could actually find the house. Sort of hiding in plain sight.

    I am in the foothills of Appalachia, not too high but if the river floods i won’t get my feet wet.
    I do not have good farming land, but could manage with container gardening if I had to.
    While I have multiple deer trails crossing my back yard, I don’t eat the ‘neighbors’ so to speak. Very quiet here…I have seen deer within 30 feet of my kitchen window.

    The only ‘down side’ is that I am all electric. I could use some practical information which is not cost prohibitive or dangerous and could be easily installed. Or, some alternative ways to heat the house….

    My area is in the “shoot, shovel, and shut-up” neighborhoods of the south. I have been told that if I needed help with the shoveling to call the neighbors who would help…one even has a backhoe…

    I have a bedroom which I turned into pantry storage and it works for me. Lots of pasta, rice, dry stuff, etc., which I try to keep rotated. I can accomodate family and friends who visit occasionally, comfortably and a whole pile of folks squeezed in as well as those who have campers and RV’s…

    I have a small amount of land which is located near two churches and can see 3 houses from my windows. There are a few more neighbors (maybe 10) nearby but out of sight around corners and behind ravines. Two of those houses are empty. The third is screened by woods. Rural?? Yup, it is very rural….If I go south for 6 miles there is a small town with decent moderate shopping; if I go north there is another small town, leading into a larger medium sized town about 13 miles away, and if I go further north I can hit a small city with a MALL…. and a lot of shopping…

    A ‘honey hole’? Maybe, but remember every honey hole has it’s bees with stingers…so you pays your money and you takes your chances.

    • Kerosene heaters and stoves work great. Just stock up on kero which is priced reasonably and you’ll be good.

    • Amish Rake Fighter says:

      Hey Wingy, sounds like you’ve got a good situation going.

      You don’t need good farm land to grow food, start by making a compost pile out of your food waste (no meat or dairy) and you can plant cover crops like Buckwheat and White Dutch Clover that will build organic matter and recondition the soil.

  171. I agree 100%. Violence begets violence. Let God guide you and you will never go wrong. Without God, there is chaos and violence.

  172. I’m not sure how popular this will be but I heard something recently that makes sense. “You want to be where God tells you to be.” if you’re a prepper, prayer should be part of your plan anyways for the best info on what you need for you and yours. Who knows you better? If it’s not a part of your plan may I suggest you start. The more of us on the same page, the better.

    • I agree…. wherever God ‘calls’ you to be will be purposeful. Living with purpose is a discipline of a “survivalist” in that we choose to live and live well, no matter how simply.

      • Libertywatchman says:

        CRAIG; DJ.
        YOU ARE QUIRE RIGHT!!! Inspite of the prevailing mentality that Church and state should be seperate, life in my view in this day and time still is as it always has bent a three legged stool thus estalishing a plane as opposed to point establishing by one leg or a line establihed by two points/legs, the PRIMARY /MAJOR LEG of which being your belonging ‘lock, stock and barrel’ to Jehovah God through Christ Jesus and thus surrenderint you will and thus able to have the joy of access to leadership, guidance, direction and protection of our Triune God: JEHOVAH GOV, CHRIST JESUS AND THAT HOLY SPIRIT/ Having that solid relationship established and such a forever member of the Family of Almighty God, praying ‘withoiut ceasing’ to always and in every way being totally receiptive to God’s will in each and every thing in our daily walk in this life, our will in all things seeking to always be totally subservent to HIS, our parthway will still have the maze of thorn but with Divine Guidance the ‘scratclhes’ suffered will be minimized. Avoid waiting to be near the ending of you life here to come to fully appreciate this Divine Fact.
        Chosing to submit any and all areas of our walk in this life to the Jehovah God, the Almighty Guide that not only knows the way but is eager to show that way to HIS OWN minimizing the “bruised, cuts and scratches” in living, now in the deterioring state of affairs we as a nation have allowed, being ‘too busy, compllcant or otherwise engaged in majoring primarily on ‘the ‘Secondary’. Especially with our nations future in great peril and thus our future as well, now more there ever TIME IS OF THE ESSANCE.

    • Craig, you have that right…. I KNOW that I was nudged towards the home in which I am currently living. After looking off and on for several years, I accidentally found this place which is not what I started looking for, but wound up with.

      It was uncanny just how things fell into place for me to get this house….you better believe that God had a lot to do with it.
      I personally feel that I am right where He intended for me to be.

    • Craig,

      You are so right.

      I was pulled out of California back in 1963 by military duty eventually to a town of about 17,000 (at the time) in Pennsylvania near the Appalachians, and I would probably not consider leaving it no matter what. I know that relocation was ordained by God. He eventually placed wife and me on the highest location and one of the nicest greater than half-acre lots on the edge of town adjacent to a major freeway which we don’t mind at all. We don’t hear noise due to 2-by-6 construction and good sound-proofing. I guess the dictum was as follows: Set your light where it can be seen and don’t hide it behind a bushel.

      Our small but adequate house is built for observation and protection surrounded by tall pines which I planted over time as well as deciduous trees and various shrubs. Tending to everything is good exercise and keeps me strong. I still feel like an eighteen year old, and I practice like the Samurai of old but on a more mental level with mostly mathematical pursuits.

      The people around here are cautious and friendly enough, but I take my orders from the Most High and consider myself a knight of the Holy Spirit in most of what I do with few slip-ups over the years. This location is the closest to the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth that I can achieve in this life until such time as we move on to the true Kingdom of Heaven beyond.

      I carry an expired CCP and this shows I operate in condition yellow only. If I ever need to change to condition orange or red then I will renew my permit.

      In regard to the size of the town near which I live perhaps someone would be so kind as to specify what size category it lies in. I really don’t know. Suburban, rural? The population remained stable at 17,000 for more than a century, I think. Now it is bound to be around 20,000 or so. What category does that place the town in? My ID is butterworth4me@yahoo.com. As Hal Lindsey says: Keep it clean please.

      Jerry

      • Since I posted earlier today an eagle landed and perched about ten feet away outside my window directly facing eastward to my right-no kidding! He landed on a copper-colored LED light fixture on a fence top. He checked out the whole back yard and then watched me watching him through venetian blinds at my window. This is only the third time in years since 1963 that I’ve seen one in this area. If I were paranoid, I’d say it was one of the Establishment’s nano-spies.

        I suspect it is probably one of the Most High’s servants, however. Ps. 91 vs. 4: He will cover you with His feathers, and under His wings you will find refuge; His faithfulness will be your shield and rampart.

        And all of the people said amen and amen.

        Jerry

    • Phyllisofical says:

      Amen, Craig.

    • i agree wholeheartedly! Without God it won’t matter where you go or what you do to protect yourself from the storms of life.

  173. We have moved to an area that is close to a large lake , out in the country enough to have abundant wildlife, and ability to grow our own food etc, yet close enough to a larger town ( 50 miles) to be able to obtain needed goods. We are also closer to a smaller town , 17 miles, where we can get the basics. We have 100 acres, enough on which to live with out it becoming too time consuming. Part of the property fronts on the lake . When you strive for self sufficiency, you hope for the best , but prepare for the worst. I am a nurse at a small community hspital, actually considered critical care because there are no other close. Our neighbors are friendly, but cautious. I feel we have the best of both worlds! What a blessing.

    • Sounds good but I would caution on relying on the wild game in your area for long term sustanance. Think of all the people in the area with guns and then reassess that option. More than likely the land will be cleaned out relatively shortyly when people are starving. I would hope you consider raising your own meat resource. Rabbits, goats, sheep or even beef if you have the means and place to put up enough feed for the winter doing it manually.

  174. beni klein says:

    i live in the outskirts of Toronto

    • Beni,
      good luck!!! use your weekends to drive out about 50 miles from the city and see what is available…write down your specific needs in list form and use that as a guide while looking. Don’t try to do it all in one weekend, plan on a couple of weekends a month to do the initial survey…
      Wingy

    • Me too.

  175. Samuel Richardson says:

    The basic question revolves around WHO, not WHERE. If you do not have relationship with people, you really do not have anything. SR

  176. Check your state to see where there are tax forfeiture properties, usually going for pennies on the dollar. We picked up some land for incredible prices this way. Over the winter we have been looking at sheds, quanset huts, etc, that could go up quickly. We have been walking the property to see the best location to put a structure, and also checking ordinances etc. By end of winter, we are ready to go with our new vacation spot.
    We made sure we were outside parameters that might hem us in.
    We have gotten solar and independent supplies ready.
    We will not need power or sewer and water on our place.
    Last fall we planted many fruit and edible flowering plants/trees.
    We have met most of the neighbors whose properties border ours.
    Either way, whether the situation comes to the worst scenerio or not, we will have a great place to relax and maybe even retire to.

    • Sally,
      you might want to investigate a used modular home for your property. it has everything in place and all it needs is to be hooked up into a well, and a septic tank…
      with the way prices are dropping, you could pick up a fairly good repo for pennies on the
      dollar. Also, you could reconfigure the heating and or cooling systems to suit your needs.
      wingy

    • Sally,

      Check on Monolithic Domes. I love mine. Very energy efficient, very strong (can be underground), concrete (so fire could only damage the inside or the outside), good energy, and feels safe. But you need to be creative to work with the round space.

    • And yes, we have also looked at fore-closed mobile homes and also at some pre-fabs. If we put up our own “shed”… we can build it the way we want, with the foundation the way we want (we are on a water shed/ natural trout stream and cannot go more than 4 feet down… so it will probably be like a sub basement with a slab on the bottom and storage compartments accessible thru trap doors in the floor), we can insulate/barricade/reinforce the walls and windows the way we want.
      We have looked into the quanset hut, so that we could literally have garage doors either end, drive in/out, and have screen doors to lower and the hut would double as a storage/ screen porch/ living / picnic areas, etc. We could put a mobile home, even a prefab home inside the hut….That hut could also be put on a cement slab on top of the ground. We have looked into panels on top that would let in a lot of natural light and windows to open to air the place. Solar is the way to go, hand water pumps (a sand point well only needs about 20′ here). We too have the freeze dried foods, camping gear, etc. Our family has always gardened, canned, hunted/fished. We are all First Cross certified. We all are re-certifying our permits to carry.

      We are proficient in many of the “olden” ways that this generation has no idea on.
      I have many of my dad’s old books on “mountain men” and hunters/pioneers of the 1800’s and there are some real gems. I have books about the area we are in pertaining to natural edibles, and what grows here/what doesn’t. I have condensed these into a 1″ spiral notebook that is in my case of must-go’s. Along with natural first aid cures, etc. “Rose hip tea was used by the Native Americans thru the long northern winters to counter scurvy” (lack of Vit C). Three decks of cards… have to do something for fun…..

      The thing that really attracted us to this land in the middle of some population (there is a 10 acre minimum covenent in this area), the largest attraction is that we are very hard to access. We have a hard time getting there now. We will have to put in a bridge of some sort to get vehicles in there, and this bridge will be a kind we can disable, that has been studied also. The 32 acres next to it is in tax forclosure and we are going to purchase it this next week putting us at 72 acres: 35 wetlands, 25 high ground, 22 pond/stream.

      Yep. My family and I will survive in place at our home 60 miles out of major city, until we feel that it is time to retreat, where our get away is waiting.
      IF we never need to use any of this, so be it.
      BUT our young adult children are also trained well enough in many facets of survival techniques that they will have many skills to pass on to their children.
      “Train up a child in the way he shall go and when he is old, he will not depart from it” Psalms 22:6

  177. earl adkins says:

    Check out ecuador I have been there and property (including farmland) is still reasonable.

    Check to see if you can use your IRA for investment purposes.

    resource www.ecuadorliving.com a lot of Americans have already made the move

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